Setting Healthy Boundaries with Winnie Chan Wang

Winnie Chan Wang is back on the show and this time we are talking Boundaries. What does it mean to set boundaries? How do you set healthy boundaries? And do your personal boundaries with yourself impact your ability to set them with others? I LOVE talking to Winnie, she’s so sweet and so wonderful.

Winnie Chan Wang is a trauma-informed licensed acupuncturist, Reiki practitioner, shadow worker and open-hearted Tao healer. She is also a professor in acupuncture at Alhambra Medical University.  In her private practice, Winnie honors her clients as divine self-healers, navigating their healing journeys as co-pilots. Because trauma is the root cause of many physical and emotional illnesses, Winnie focuses on releasing trapped emotions in organs and meridians (energy pathways). Winnie combines the medical science of a clinically trained acupuncturist with her spiritual cultivation, to help her clients process their trauma by channeling source healing energy and guided breathwork. Her goal in becoming an author is to guide her readers into a deep self-exploration with compassion and curiosity.

Watch OR Listen to Ep. 112: Boundaries of Self Love & Sweat THE PODCAST

Timestamps to help you better navigate this episode:

(0:00) Intro
(6:13) Women, heartbreak and lacking or excessive boundaries
(12:10) Boundaries derived from anger
(22:34) Drop the ego
(26:01) How to lock up the monkey in your mind
(31:12) Your own bouncer for boundaries
(34:12) Setting boundaries with family & communicating clearly
(39:45) Unsolicited advice
(47:21) When others don’t respect your boundaries

Excessive vs. Lacking Healthy Boundaries

“Sometimes, especially with many of my female clients in their 40’s, they’ve had their heart broken so many times that they’ve built these heart walls around themselves and they’re just looking for that guy in their life to make ONE mistake so they can set a hard boundary,” Wang says. Whether you’re excessive or lacking in your boundaries it’s all a trauma response and the most important thing we can do is recognize that and have love and compassion for ourselves.

Boundaries Derived from Anger

When we set our boundaries from a place of anger, the chances of the person matching that energy is really high and it can turn into a fight or a battle. When we are calm and composed when we communicate our boundaries, the more likely the person will respect them. It’s really important to get to that root cause of the anger and learn how to alchemize that into compassion & understanding for self and others.



Lunden Souza: [00:00:00] Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you’ll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections, break down barriers, and do what sets your soul on fire. I’m your host Lunden Souza.

Lunden Souza: [00:00:20] Hey, have you grabbed your free self love and sweat monthly calendar yet? This calendar is so amazing. It comes right in your inbox every single month to help you have a little nugget of wisdom, a sweaty workout, a mindset activity, just a little something. Something to help keep you focused and motivated and keep that momentum towards your goals. So every day when you get this calendar, you’ll see a link that you can click that will lead to a podcast episode or a workout or something that will be very powerful and quick to read. And then you’ll also see on the top left corner of every single day there’s a little checkbox in the calendar. And what that is, is that’s for your one thing. You can choose one thing every month, or it can be the same something that you want to implement and make this something that you can easily implement, like daily meditation or getting a certain amount of steps or water, for example, and staying hydrated and even taking your supplements. This can be something, if you want to get more regular, doing a particular habit and routine, you can choose what that checkbox means. So if you want your self love and sweat free monthly calendar delivered right to your inbox every month on the first of the month, go to Fill out the form really quickly and you will have your calendar and your inbox within a few short minutes. That’s Go get yours for free and enjoy this episode.  Welcome back to the podcast. Today we have Winnie Chan Wang back on the show. Her and I had such a powerful conversation about, yeah, just being in touch with loving ourselves, loving on all of our uniqueness. And I’m excited to have you back today because we’re going to talk about boundaries, which I think is such a powerful topic this season when we’re recording this. It’s like in between that Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday. So I think boundaries can sometimes be a little bit more prominent, at least in our brains around this time. And I think no matter when anyone’s listening to this, this will be a great topic to tune into. So when so thankful for your time today, tell us about you a little bit for those who maybe didn’t hear the previous episode. And yeah, tell us about you.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:02:52] Sure. In one sentence I am a trauma informed licensed acupuncturist and I specialize in removing trapped emotions in the body. So a lot of times we experience trauma and it literally the body keeps the score in our liver, our kidney, our heart, our lungs, our stomach. And so to talk about boundaries, we’ve got to talk about our hips, you know, because. Boundaries is what makes us feel safe in the world. It’s very much like the hips, you know, the hips provide the foundation. So we’re talking about feeling safe to even exist in this world. So it’s really funny just to give everybody a little history about boundaries. So boundaries is this new topic that didn’t even exist ten years ago, and because of my age, you can guess that I did not grow up with boundaries. And, you know, I really started to become a student of boundaries five years ago. And today I really love to share with the audience my personal journey from all the way, no boundaries and being a total people pleaser and just doing whatever other people tell me to do. To the other extreme, where I’m such a good student of boundaries that I was essentially, you know, blocking everybody else off and, you know, not letting anybody else in.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:04:32] And almost like spiritual bypassing where I’m like, Oh, I need boundaries right now. You know, it’s like, I’m going to go to the cave, I’m going to go meditate, and I just shut the door and I don’t want to let anybody in. You know, I’ve gone to the other extreme. And so what I want to say before we dive deeper into this topic is. Wherever you are. You know, take a deep breath. Is exactly where you are in the sense that whether you are on the side of lacking boundaries or you’re on the side of excessive boundaries, both are an adaptive trauma response. Right. So, for example. Most of us start off not having boundaries because as a child we don’t have the ability to make our own money. We don’t have the ability to get food and shelter on our own. So have compassion for ourselves that we needed to be a people pleaser. We needed to do whatever our parents tell us in order to survive to get food and shelter right. We do have a codependent relationship with our parents just to survive.

Lunden Souza: [00:06:03] And to learn those survival skills. I mean, that’s one of the point. But sometimes we yeah, we learn them through different avatars and filters. So that’s kind of how we get them.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:06:13] Exactly. And then sometimes for some of my female clients especially, they’ve had their heart broken so many times. That they built heart walls around themselves. Yes. So very easily. You know, I have girlfriends who are in their forties and they’re still single because it’s like the guy makes one mistake and then immediately it’s like, Och, set boundaries. I cannot hang out with this person. See you later.

Lunden Souza: [00:06:49] Like, almost looking for looking for a reason to, like, set the boundary or stiff arm or lay the line. Yes, I can totally envision both ends of those extremes.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:07:00] Exactly. So, but understand that wherever you are, whether you are lacking or excessive in your boundaries, it’s both a trauma response. So just take a moment and give yourself a big hug. You know, we’ve all been doing our best. Mm hmm.

Lunden Souza: [00:07:21] Yes. And I was just on a conversation with a one on one client. And, you know, I love I love words, words and communication. I feel like, Yeah, of course. That’s why I podcast and I love talking with you. But she was in this loop of boundaries of them being either no boundaries whatsoever and having

Lunden Souza: [00:07:45] Like full boundaries of like either going to the event and being full participant all the way in or like not going, not connecting at all. And I was like, well, you know, we don’t it’s not black or white. There’s a beautiful land of grey area, especially when it comes with boundaries where it’s like, Yeah, you could participate for X amount of time or whatever feels good for you, and then like exit when it’s time. So maybe someone listening to you find yourself kind of in that loop of or like a ping pong ball mode where it’s just like I’m either on this extreme or the other side or this side or the other side. With boundaries, I find boundaries. More. I’m trying to it’s a more empowering way to look at it, to be like a dance. It’s like kind of figuring out what boundaries are necessary, when and with whom. And you and I were talking earlier to just kind of sharing a quick ideas about this podcast and my notes or what I thought we would kind of discuss or what I was thinking about was really boundaries surrounding other people with others in our lives. And you mentioned like, okay, boundaries with self too. And I was like, Oh yeah, you know, So yeah, maybe someone listening, you’re dancing in that loop, or you think boundaries just have to do with other people. That’s kind of where my mind went this morning. Definitely isn’t only included in that category. And so just again, I’m super excited about this topic today. So where do you want to start? You want to start with boundaries, with self or boundaries with others, or is boundaries with self kind of like care of self directly kind of correlated to being able to set those boundaries with others? What type of self trust and boundary setting is involved with kind of also being out in the arena with other people and setting those solid boundaries too? I’ll let you choose kind of where we jump in.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:09:34] Sure. I like to navigate this with, you know, what advice I would give myself when I’m my twenties, thirties and forties, because I also think that whatever advice you need is a little bit dependent on what life stage you’re at. Right? So let’s roll back to the clock before when we had boundaries. So if you are looking at the holidays and you want to participate because of course you love your parents. But then sometimes they are. Very triggering. And this is what I would teach a coach, my 20 year old self. So if you don’t know how to say no or have boundaries, usually this is what I would say to my mother. Mom, I love you. I want to listen to you. What you have to say is tremendously important to me. However, our relationship is very important, and for the sake of protecting our connection, I’m going to request that we take some space. So that I can get clarity about myself. And you can have a little space to come back to yourself. Right. So, you know, usually my general opinion is that in my twenties I didn’t know how to have boundaries. It’s like learning how to say no.

Lunden Souza: [00:11:35] And like, establish your place as like an adult in the world. Would you say that too? It’s kind of like that voice that’s not. Yeah, it’s not like I mean, I guess, of course there is parts of the child in that, but it’s kind of like, Wait, hey, I feel like from what you said in this hypothetical situation to a mom, which I think resonates with a lot of people, listening is very much like, Hey, wait. Like, let me make sure you see me as this age, as this. You’re not your lenses are not still looking at a version of me that you were. Yeah. Telling what to do and what to wear and all the things all the time. Am I hearing you right?

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:12:10] Yeah. What I also want to emphasize is that. Sometimes we come to a place of boundaries. From a place of anger. Yeah. And, well, of course, we’re going to get angry, right? If you do get angry. Give yourself a big hug. You know, we all get angry. I get angry all the time, but. It’s to pause and maybe take three deep breaths. And to understand that if I communicate to the other person about boundaries from a place of anger. The other person is not only going to receive my words, but they’re going to receive my vibration of anger. And it’s kind of like playing tennis. If I put a ball into your court, you’re going to try to put the call back ball back to my court. And so if my boundaries come with the vibration of anger, you can count on pushback from the other person, right? So if I try to come and tell my mom, you can’t talk to me like this, or I need some space right now, and if it comes of anger, I will tell you that my mom will raise the bar, you know, and we’ll just escalate. So when communicate boundaries, take three breaths and just mentally will yourself and be like, okay, the calmer I am in communicating the boundaries, the more likely the other person will respect my boundaries. You see, because. The other person on the receiving end of boundaries can very easily feel abandoned and neglected. What do you mean? I have all these important things to say and you don’t want to hear it. It’s so important. I have to say it. I have to say it, you know, so. Not that we’re responsible for the other person so that they don’t get triggered. If they get triggered and they’re abandonment ones and whatever that’s on them. But know that if we do take responsibility for communicating boundaries. From a place of calmness. And love. Really? It’s like I love you so much. And our.

Lunden Souza: [00:14:48] Relationship, that’s what I heard you say, is like, Yeah, I love you. Like I’m acknowledging your place in my life, whether it’s a mother or other relative or whatever. I hear you. I see you. And here’s like, what I might need to be even better with you and interacting with you. So yeah, it was just so much love and acknowledgement and then communicating that need clearly, because when we do that from anger also it’s like what you think you need in that moment of anger, what you want that person to do or how you. It’s like the anger is helpful. I never want to discount any emotion and especially anger, but it’s just nice to communicate. Once it’s like simmer down a little bit. I feel like the flavors have like merged together a bit more. The temperature has come down and it’s just, yeah, a better message delivery.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:15:41] Exactly. So on the topic of anger, I’m going to roll to the version of Winnie in her thirties when I’m just angry all the time and I just wanted to be like, It’s my way or the highway, you know? I had really firm boundaries. It’s like I’m just not willing to compromise on anything. Like this is where I stand on this issue. It’s like either you come to my side or we, you know, can’t connect. Ha. And what I want to say about that is. So many women have. You know, endometriosis, fibrosis, breast cancer and all kinds of even just, you know, PMS and disorders. And there is a reason. The reason is because biologically, women are not made to have strong boundaries. Now I’m going to use the medical term penis and vagina. I hope that’s allowed as a medical doctor. So, you know, a penis gets hard. A vagina gets soft in the sense that a man need to. It’s toughen and a woman needs to soften in order for there to be a sacred union or connection. So. What that means is. For us as a woman to set boundaries. It’s like asking a vagina to get hard, right? It’s like. I mean, of course we need to, like, not let other people take advantage of us.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:17:36] Of course we need to know how to say no, but boundaries need to be flexible. It’s like cargo exercise. You don’t just want to squeeze. You also want to relax. If you just permanently squeeze your kegel, it’s actually going to lead to another kind of pelvic floor dysfunction. It’s like you need to have rest days on your muscle. So in my thirties, and I’ve seen this with so many female clients who come to me with reproductive disorder. Is that they have such rigid, firm boundaries. It’s like. That’s how they develop all these reproductive disorder. And so what I found is I need to tell them, Och, you really good at this boundary game. I need you to unlearn. I need you to melt some of these walls that you have because, you know, to heal your reproductive organs. I need you to return to the soft state to receive pleasure. You know, that’s what our women lady parts are for. As for softening and receiving pleasure. So, yeah. So that is what I have to say about the version of Winnie in her thirties when she was just so angry about everything and just saying no to everything.

Lunden Souza: [00:18:56] Yeah. And that awareness of the anger and then, I don’t know, still feeling frustrated. That’s kind of I mean, I’m in my thirties as we speak to. So it’s like, yeah, for you kind of ask, you realize have the awareness that the anger is there. And then I’ve, I’ve found myself being like, okay, for what? Like, you know, instead of just like it’s like, let’s examine this and use it wisely or use it in a, in a yeah, more empowering, less destructive way, like you mentioned, and I love the term that you used like, well it was of course you meant it in like a softening way and relaxing way. But you said like unlearning. And I think that a lot.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:19:38] Of.

Lunden Souza: [00:19:39] Brick walls I had built up for sure, especially coming into my late twenties, early thirties and I remember, yeah, moving back from Austria to America, just kind of starting over in some areas of my life, continuing in new ways and other areas of my life. And I did a December challenge that was called the University of Unlearning and it was like some unlearning of fitness myths and different things too, but also unlearning what I believed like forgiveness to be and what I believed, setting boundaries to look like. And so I think too, when I think about that unlearning process, even though it was, yeah, challenging, messy at times, I definitely the underlying feeling that I get looking back on those moments of unlearning and braiding is really like that. Like relax, like that softening that you mentioned where I’m like, Yeah, I’m glad I opened that door. I’m glad I cleaned under that rug. I’m glad I found the Gorgon to like, unstick some of these things and use it in new ways or discard what I might not think is useful. And so and yeah, I also I mean, I can only speak for myself and my experience, and I don’t have the clinical experience that you have when it comes to hormonal disorder and attachment to to ways or the programming, let’s say, if you will. But what I realized from healing and reversing PCOS and cystic acne and a lot of issues with hormone imbalance, I for sure leaned.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:21:17] To.

Lunden Souza: [00:21:18] More do do do like set up the processes, set up the ways, the boundaries, the da da da. But what really allowed it to stick for life was going in and unlearning a lot of this programming and dealing with some emotional trauma and limiting beliefs in all these different types of things that I believe has allowed me to be less rigid. And some of my day to day approach, like one of the things you mentioned in our last episode is like eating with gratitude outside of like, is your food part of the meal plan and the macros and the things and the hormone balancing foods, you know, like. So I feel like that whole process has been super relaxing too. So that was just my long way of saying that really resonated with me, that unlearning, that braiding, that excavating, but nurturing at the same time of like, what the fuck am I so angry about? And how can I turn this into like, better ammunition or like, better fuel, if you will, to reach help more people like drop the ego a little bit, make your, you know, make a bigger impact like channel some of these learnings into new stories so you.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:22:22] Can I don’t.

Lunden Souza: [00:22:24] Know yeah make a little bit of a bigger impact I think just instead of being so angry and frustrated here, it’s like how can we channel that into something more impactful?

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:22:34] Yeah, I hear you say the magic word, which is drop the ego a little bit, which is brings me to where I am, which is in my forties. And you know, where I am right now is. The only boundary I really need to set with myself in the sense that. It’s actually. You know, some a lot of people know it’s like they have a voice of light and then they have a voice of darkness. Having boundaries with myself. Looks like I’m always going to follow the voice of light and not follow the voice of darkness. So what that looks like is if you ever have negative self-talk, which I know so many women do, including myself, it’s like, Och, you’re fat, or I’m always living to paycheck to paycheck, or I’m always dating the same men or, you know, whatever your victim story is. Or, you know, whenever my mom says this or does this, I get angry, you know. All of these are conversations. And what I mean by setting boundaries with myself is having the practice of locking the monkey mind. So what’s really funny is that. A single thought generates the chemicals that create anger. But that one thought is only supposed to last 90 seconds.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:24:36] Right. So recently I had this encounter actually with my boyfriend where, you know, I was in the middle of doing something. And, you know, I close the door and it’s supposed to mean I’m in my safe space, right? I’m processing something. I don’t want anybody to see me in my you know, and in my state. I have thought what? I created a very safe container for my self to process something. And he opened the door to, I don’t know, to get something. And I was just was really angry. I’m like, you know, like, why are you here? You know? Don’t you know that closed door means like, don’t come in, you know, like, why are you not respecting my boundaries? Right? And so and then that’s the other thing. We get angry when other people don’t respect our boundaries. And then in that moment, you know, I felt this anger just burning inside of me. And I was like, okay, when he pause, let’s take deep breaths. Instead of disempowering yourself. Allowing yourself to get angry at him. Why did he walk in and disrespect my boundaries? Why don’t you just lock the monkey mind in this minute? And that’s what I did. I locked the monkey mind.

Lunden Souza: [00:26:01] And how do you do that? Do you visually lock the monkey in the cage? Like, do you have a visual? I mean, I know from work on mindset, you know, sometimes you change what it looks like, you change the voice of it. You put it somewhere visual, like, you know, there’s really great tools for that. So when you said, I locked the monkey mind, what did you do or what?

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:26:22] Yeah. So the monkey mind is between the eyebrows and to me, the fastest way to lock the monkey mind is to ground. It’s almost like here. Mother Earth, divine mother’s. Please take this anger from me. So what I do is I do a bow down posture where I put my forehead or the third eye or the monkey mind literally onto the ground so you can put, you know, if it’s indoors, it still works. You know, I have wood floors in the house. If I’m in the bed, even if I bow and put my head into the pillow, it works. But it’s like I put my forehead onto the ground and I just say a little prayer. Okay. Like Divine mother, please, like, take this anger from me. And, you know, please stop my mind from thinking, you know, I’m safe. I’m, you know, just keep breathing. And I am love and help me come back to my original nature. And it was so magical because in three breaths, I went from extremely angry of my boundaries being violated to the most peace I’ve ever experienced. It’s almost like I got, you know, Reiki session coming out, just like stars and head to toe. All kinds of magical energy was all over me. And I just started laughing, you know, because. He has to come into the room to get a sweater, you know, like it’s not like he wanted to violate my boundaries. You know, he probably just wasn’t even thinking. He probably didn’t notice that the door was closed. Right. But then and that’s the other thing, is that as a human being. I added all this artificial boundary like closed door means don’t come in, you know. But it’s not like he wanted to piss me off. He wanted to come in and get a sweater. You know what I mean?

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Lunden Souza: [00:29:44] Yeah, and really, like you mentioned, the emotion can bring so much extra fluff to the story. But when we can really ground down, which I love that you mentioned and then like say what is right or get real with what is, it’s like, okay, they came in, they opened the door to grab a jacket. Like, what else would they do if they needed the jacket? You go get your, you know, like just to your point of just like grounding down and saying what is And I love the loving nature of the grounding that you mentioned, the bowing of it. It’s kind of like child’s pose in yoga. You’re familiar with child’s pose. But for me, the kind of the grounding, at least in the current, my current way of doing it is more of like a boundary bouncer that’s more like, no, like not welcome here to your point of like thoughts of the dark side, light side, however you want to paint it.

Lunden Souza: [00:31:12] But things are coming in and I really feel like it’s a, it’s a bouncer to my boundaries that’s coming in and like, no, you’re not allowed or can’t come in here. And I will often say, no, not allowed here. Like no, but I like the loving nature of what you mentioned of just like, okay, we’ll bring in more loving, nurturing thoughts versus like banishing with like clear, stiff arm boundaries of some of these thoughts. But I think, yeah, whatever really works for you. But I always find a physical, like you said, getting down on the ground, like doing something physical to get your body to like break state is super helpful and then saying what is and then being able to kind of laugh about it or just, yeah, you know, kind of make it a little bit more. Yeah, I don’t know, human, you know, it’s just kind of like, Oh, man. Okay, Yeah, like, there I go again. Monkey mind, like making all these assumptions, all these stories, all these things mean all these things. And I wrote here, like, Can you get mad at someone? Especially when.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:32:13] You.

Lunden Souza: [00:32:14] Don’t communicate clear boundaries, right? Like, if your boyfriend’s model of the world you closed door doesn’t mean, you know, don’t come in. Right? If that’s the room, he comes in regularly where his stuff is, whatever. But I think yeah, what I want to talk about a little bit is like, okay, so we have these boundaries with ourselves and yeah, we can create them. Like you said, it’s just like as soon as I find that monkey mind turn on forehead to the ground, like in gratitude, like you have these ways of including boundaries with yourself, for yourself. Because you are yourself. Right? But then what about when we’re in relationships with family, with our significant other, You know, boundaries can be like in all different ways, right? It could be like these big boundaries of what is or is not acceptable or what you will, I don’t know. But there’s also like the little everyday boundaries and like you mentioned to at some point like boundaries can be flexible and. I think kind of like a dance, especially like I think about, yeah, just certain boundaries that I have with like my best friend or my boyfriend or the continuous like, yeah, as we’re building our relationship, like, okay, what is, did I go too far? Is that a boundary? Like, can I, how can I do you know what I’m saying? Like that, that boundaries of love, beautiful boundaries, if you will, or sometimes, you know, maybe somebody thinks this is like not even a big deal and you’re like, oh, no, like hard boundary here. This is what I will and will not accept. I think a lot about that with family and significant others with that. It’s like the communication really has to be there of what.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:33:55] Is.

Lunden Souza: [00:33:56] What the boundaries are, what that looks like. And yeah, I think sometimes too we can tell them with words and sometimes we can tell them with action. I think.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:34:09] About.

Lunden Souza: [00:34:12] Because of the time of year and boundaries with family and my continuous quest for healthy boundaries that I don’t feel like I always have to communicate the same shit that I can act in a way that also includes those boundaries, if you will, is what I’m going to say it. So some ways I’ve communicated the boundaries are yeah. Sometimes saying like, Hey, this is not comfortable for me when this happens is how I feel here is like what I prefer or even saying to like, Hey, sometimes I just need the door. One is actually a big one that I thought to being certain places you go to a room and shut the door that like, yeah, I needed that space. So I also had to communicate hey when I’m when I go in that room and shut the door and you know that I’m in there like knocking and asking if I’m in there, like it’s just, you know, like I need my alone time. 15, 20 minutes should. I don’t want to have to tell you every time. So just like you don’t know where I am and you’re pretty sure I’m in that room, like I’m pretty sure I’m alive. And I just needed, like, a quick 15 minutes. Right? And then also some unspoken ones. So just like pure duration of time spent around certain people without needing to be explanatory about it, I would oftentimes feel with setting boundaries around family, like, Oh yeah, I’m only staying three days because like, I got to do this and this is busy and whatever and it’s like, No, I’m just staying these days because I know for me, like that’s the time I have in me where I can show up and be proud of the interaction.

Lunden Souza: [00:35:35] And that’s enough and that feels good and feels right. I don’t have to explain it. I don’t have to justify it. I can say it’s one day, it’s 30 minutes, it’s four days, it’s whatever. And as long as I feel like which is important to me, like being congruent, doing what I say I’m going to do and being like, okay, yeah, I’m coming for those two days. Yeah, I’ll be there. I’m not going to be flighty with different things because I don’t want to face it. I’m just understanding my boundaries of time spent and and things like that. So I feel like, yeah, sometimes you got to really say it and be very clear. And yeah, even write letters sometimes when you want to communicate clear boundaries and communication and stay focused on that. And then what I feel like is even more is just like being the boundary and having that be who you are to in action.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:36:22] That’s been helpful. I love what you say, that you know, where you are is that you are very comfortable in asking for space, in creating safe space, in not needing to explain or justify your need for boundaries. And I’ve really loved to serve you to the next level by taking it to the next notch. Which is why. Och let’s the door thing is like, you know. Och that’s just something pretty easy. But let’s go into the place about unsolicited advice because I think that a lot of the times where we really get upset is when somebody gives us unsolicited advice. And then what do we do in that situation, Right? So. Understand that if someone is giving you unsolicited advice and you get triggered, it’s because they are our mirrors. So if I love giving unsolicited advice. Then I’m going to attract magnetically people giving me unsolicited advice. And let’s say I don’t have the practice of giving unsolicited advice. Then when other people give me unsolicited advice, I’ll just be able to. And, you know, like just, oh, they’re talking, you know, and. And the other thing that I’m understanding is. Let’s say my mother. She’s giving me unsolicited advice.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:38:17] Is to not hear the words that is coming out of her mouth, but to receive the vibration of how deeply she cares about me. And to have compassion for her because she hasn’t made acceptance with who she is. You see, fundamentally, the reason why we love giving unsolicited advice is because we have the same problem that we haven’t healed. We haven’t accepted our imperfection. We want to change. We want to change me. I want to change me. I want to change you. I love you. And so you need to change, right? So that’s really what it says. I love you. You need to change. That’s why I need to give you unsolicited advice. So let’s just laugh about this for a minute, because what I find is when here you go again, like, can you find more acceptance of your perfection when you don’t need to change, The other person doesn’t need to change, you don’t need to give unsolicited advice because if they ask you share. But if they don’t ask, then they are perfect. They’re perfect from where they’re standing. So I don’t need to do anything. I just need to love them.

Lunden Souza: [00:39:45] Yeah, I love that one because sometimes I do catch myself, like catching the ball and throwing it right back, like you mentioned, like the unsolicited advice there. But one thing that’s really helpful that I once implemented at a retreat that I taught because I felt like it was helpful for the women when they were engaging with one another. And then I shared it with some friends of mine who I actually spent some time with in Mexico. They’re my friends from Austria, and they brought it up again to because they’re like, Oh my gosh, this was so helpful. And it’s do you need silence, empathy or advice? Like, do you need me just to sit here and not say anything? Do you want me to be like, oh, like, oh, yeah, that must be tough, you know? Or do you really want me to listen with the with giving you feedback or advice? And that was really helpful. And I think about that a lot too. And I’ll ask my that’s helped me a lot be able to switch from like the life coach podcasting feedback going back and forth hat to like the friend hat because sometimes I realize like, oh yeah, my friends are the people that I love don’t always automatically want like tips and tricks to change their mind. Like sometimes you just want to hear and like, just want to talk and like, get it up, get it off of their chest. And so that silence, empathy or advice is helpful.

Lunden Souza: [00:40:56] And so when I was visiting with some friends in Mexico, we were talking about it too, and we were all kind of sharing like just different things going on in our lives. And one of my friend Alex, he goes, What do you want? Silence, empathy or advice? Like he was repeating what he had remembered. We talked about years ago and it was just funny. It was like a moment of like, yeah, being able to be playful and have fun with real life shit and being able to be like, okay, yeah, I want to hear you. And you know, as friends sometimes it’s like, Yeah, our friends will sometimes complain about a lot of things or you realize, yeah, they just like that space to just like, let it go and they don’t really need or want. Like you said, if they don’t ask for it, they don’t want it and they’re good and they maybe just wanted to like get it all out and unpack the basket, if you will. And that’s fine too. So silence, empathy or advice? I ask. To people where I feel like I have that rapport to. I feel like not with strangers. If someone’s are like, you know, sometimes you catch up, I don’t know with people that maybe you don’t have as much rapport as, you know, where I might just. Yeah, probably, probably innate. Like if I don’t know the person and I don’t have the I don’t know if I would ask right off the bat, I think I would automatically go to silence and empathy right with the person.

Lunden Souza: [00:42:04] I didn’t really know that. I just started kind of talking or sharing and then maybe ask like, Hey, do you want my advice? But I think from the get go with people, I’ve built rapport with clients, friends, whatever. Like, I’ll notice they’ll start to tell a story and I’m like, Hey, silence, empathy or advice. Like, What am I listening for so that I could best support you as a friend here? I think that’s helpful. And then also on the other end, I think maybe sometimes people don’t know what they need when they don’t want advice. So maybe that’s helpful for someone who feels like they’re getting like unsolicited advice. It might just be like, Hey, I appreciate your advice so much. And what really helps me is just like silence. Do you think you could just like, hear me out and just like, I don’t know, lay next to me, hold my hand, whatever. So sometimes I think we might not realize we don’t want advice or we might realize we don’t want advice, but we don’t know exactly what we do want. So maybe that’s helpful in conversation with other people to be like, Hey, you know, boundaries on the advice card. Like I love you as a friend, but every time you’re telling me your opinion and I know what your opinion is, but like I’m hurting, so I just kind of want to, like, let it out and feel a little bit.

Lunden Souza: [00:43:07] And then I feel like you can be a better friend. I had a close friend when I was going through a really tough time and she spent a lot of time with me where it was just like, I spend a lot of time in silence. Or she just like, yes, it and just like nod her head and gosh. And I tell her now I’m like, That was so helpful. Like, I didn’t realize how much like a living bobblehead, just like, shaking their head up and down, like, would have just been so helpful and we would drive out in the middle of nowhere and just be like, by the lake or by the or the sunset, like, really nice. And she would just listen. And so even if you feel like, like I sometimes do too, where you’re like, it’s like a horse getting ready for the race, you just want to give the advice. And it’s like, I can remember that moment where my friend Berkeley, like, just sat for many nights and days in silence with me as I was just processing. And I just realized how stinking powerful that is. So if I find myself in the listener listener role, that silence role, I take it first, I take it seriously, right? Like I’m listening, I’m hearing, but also like, yeah, engaging in the listening process.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:44:14] So that’s perfect. And what I find is that if ever I have an urgency like, Oh my God, I have to tell that person that because they need to know the truth, then I would sit down and write a letter. And the reason is because there is something in there, not for them, but for me. Right. So if I ever get really have this feeling of urgency, Oh, my God, like with all every cell in my body, I have this passion that I need to awaken you. Because if I don’t tell you this right now, you’re not going to awaken to this pattern where you just keep yourself as a victim. Like, I need to tell you this really thing that you need to change. So write it on the letter and then read it to yourself. Maybe don’t even send it to the other person. Just read it for yourself, because that is advice that we want to give to ourselves. That’s like that urgency is because there’s something in me that needs to hear this message. Right. So sometimes if we feel the urgency to give advice, it’s really because the advice is for me.

Lunden Souza: [00:45:31] Not so urgently write it down and read it to yourself. Because usually it’s yeah, like as we’re trying to pump someone else up or get them to do X, Y, or Z, it’s like, if we could just do that. Like you mentioned, it’s sometimes packaged in a in a nice little reverse point, the finger right back at you and the writing it down process I feel like is super helpful. Yeah. Whether you read it to yourself, which I highly recommend like you mentioned, or just sometimes getting that out because sometimes it needs to be said clearer later on, which is why writing can be super helpful. And sometimes it just never needed to be said. It just needed to be released in a different way so we can sometimes get it out with writing. Oh, I love this conversation so much. I love the importance that we brought to the table today of really the boundaries with our selves. I think that we can all have that that moment of just or many, many moments.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:46:29] Of.

Lunden Souza: [00:46:31] Going into that same pattern, that same loop, that same monkey mind, as you mentioned, and, and leaning into that over and over again and then continuing to complain and blame as to why X, Y, or Z isn’t working out in our lives. And so why my mentor, who I love, Aubrey, she’s been on my podcast a bunch, but she says if you’ve got an issue issue and I think about that a lot too, or it’s like, yeah, you know, maybe there’s just a little bit yeah, there could be some boundary setting that’s totally necessary and it could just be a little bit more like working in or like moment with ourselves to be a little bit more honest. Like you said, write down that letter, get out that advice we want to give to the world, and then just kind of give it back to ourselves, which is so beautiful.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:47:21] Yeah. There’s one more thing that’s really fascinating, which is what happens when the other person does not respect our boundary, right? When we say, Och, I need space, but they just keep talking over you like stop. And then they’ll just keep talking. And whenever that happens, of course pause and maybe find humor in that moment. Maybe not, because you’re so upset that you’re violating your boundaries of being violated, but it’s also a mirror or an opportunity to look at how often I violate other people’s boundary where other people don’t want to hear from me. But I just keep talking and talking and talking. And if you’ve ever kept talking, even though the other person asks you to stop, let’s just take a deep breath together. And just really love yourself because that is exactly what you needed to do in that moment. You know, Yes. We on this episode, we talk a lot about taking deep breaths and not communicating from a place of anger. Try to slow down, write a letter. But there are moments when the truth is just pouring out of you. And it’s an unstoppable nature, like, you know, like a tsunami on earthquake where it just has to erupt out of you. And if that happens, if you are the person who cannot respect the other person’s need for space or boundary, it’s like, you know, I’ve done this where I just need to send you ten messages, text messages, because this truth is just burning out of me.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:49:11] I got to get it out. Know that as part of the perfection. Right. Especially if you’re a woman. So. Something that we talk about as a divine feminine is that we are the carrier of truth and we are divine Women is not afraid to speak her truth and to call other people out when they are not doing something right. Right. So appreciate. Hey, you know what? My throat chakra is working. I’m not afraid to speak my truth, you know? So after you’ve had this angry episode, kind of forgive yourself. You know, one of the things that I had a hard time doing is after I explode, I will then dwell in guilt and shame, be like, Oh my God, Whitney, you exploded and lost your temper just now, you know? But it’s it’s even laughing when we do explode and lose our temper that, Hey, you know what? Sometimes there are earthquakes, there are volcano eruptions, there are tsunamis. These and the even the most cultivated practitioner who is good at taking deep breaths are going to have moments of volcanic eruption. So just give yourself lots of love no matter where you are.

Lunden Souza: [00:50:36] Yes, it’s such a practice. So grace while practicing boundaries. I mean, I’m laughing when you’re smiling inside and outside while you are saying that because I can think of so many times that I would probably called like mess ups, but now I’ll call them like practice rounds of just being like, Oh, great job at trying to set a nonviolent communication boundary. London after reading books on nonviolence. And then you’re like, rah rah, and then you’re like, Shit. Okay. And to your point, yeah, I would totally dwell on the redo and be like, Oh my gosh, I messed up. And because I messed up, that means I’m 39,000 steps behind versus just like, oh, just learned how to not do it another way again, you know? But I can think of many times where you show up and you think you’re, Yeah, ready to communicate something clearly. And for one reason or another, like you mentioned, volcano, tsunami, eruption, whatever. And that happens and it’s going to happen. So as you listening are continuing to set boundaries with yourself and practicing like there’s going to be those moments.

Lunden Souza: [00:51:41] And I think the longer you can or the shorter amount of time you can like hate on yourself for that, because I know there’d be like much, you know, it’s like after the event, I’d like be beating myself up afterwards, just for days after. And then you think like, gosh, you know, yeah, it might have been an explosion on my end and gone, you know, But everybody’s working on their own lives too. So the faster that I can just, like, get it together within and show up better next time is going to be a much bigger, you know, healer for myself and whoever is involved than continuing to dwell on it and beat myself up even more. So I love that you that you said that to because yeah, it’s just like anything, you know. And I think I would argue that we’re always in the practice of boundaries and communicating in relationships. I don’t think anyone is, would consider themselves like an absolute master at that. And so I just think, yeah, playing that, practicing that grace while practicing your boundaries is.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:52:41] Is.

Lunden Souza: [00:52:42] A major part of that too is just like, okay, cool. All right, let me try to do this better next time. And maybe if you’re listening, you have been beating yourself up for the way you showed up in a situation when you tried to communicate boundaries that you knew were out of love and all the things it’s all good as when he says, Take a deep breath, like dust it off a little bit and step in again and try again.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:53:04] Yeah. So one of the things is we all want to experience love. And within any relationship between any two people, whether it’s a man and a woman, a parent or a child, there’s going to be one that has more of this anxious attachment energy. And there’s one who is more avoidant, right? There’s one who is like, Oh, I want more of you. And then there’s more one that’s like, I need more space. And so actually my boyfriend and I, we offer this to on to Energy healing session and it works in person or remote where we are. Plus helping you unpack this. Anxious and avoiding dynamics so that you can have a more intimate relationship where the boyfriend girlfriend or parent child. And it is so fascinating because I don’t know if anybody out there has done couples therapy. I’ve done it. It’s not fun. It feels like you’re sitting in front of a judge, He said she said, you know, we’re collecting all the evidence to make the other person look bad. But this different dynamic of of two on two is so fun because then the other person is like, Yeah, I cannot relate to that. I can relate to that. And just. Having energy blockages removed and receiving this universal love and unpacking some of the trauma as to why we are showing up with anxiety or with avoiding energy. And so yeah, for any of the listeners out there who want to not have to do the work on this dance of boundary and no boundary and all this and just want. Shortcut and work with some experts, you know, look me up my healing heart.

Lunden Souza: [00:55:01] Yes, absolutely. I think any time we can have that coaching and have that guidance and have that time doing the work, not just like listening to the podcasts or reading, it’s like the implementation part, I find that so powerful. So I’m so glad that you offered that resource and we’ll put all the links for that in the description of this show. Wheni thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. I love what you’re doing in the world. Those of you listening can’t see the video, but if you’re watching the video, when he has like this bright pink blazer on, like, this big just you could just tell she’s so in in the work herself and so eager to share it with the world to. So I’m assuming that session would be so powerful and so helpful. And like you mentioned, fast track a little bit because sometimes we get stuck in our own monkey mind. We’re listening to podcasts we’re doing. It’s like sometimes it’s helpful just to step into that coaching or make that appointment or do that thing so there can be structure and a little bit more cohesion in your healing process and in your communication process and boundary process and all those things. So thank you so much for being here and anything else you want to share or like any final words we did.

Winnie Chan Wang: [00:56:17] No, we’re good. Just love you everybody so much. Thank you for tuning in. And as always, if you enjoy this podcast, remember to give London some love reviews and five stars.

Lunden Souza: [00:56:29] Yes. Thanks, babe. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Self Love and Sweat the podcast. Hey, do me a favor. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, give us a review. This really helps a lot and share this with a friend. I’m only one person and with your help we can really spread the message of self love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I’m Lunden Souza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose fueled by self love and sweat. This podcast is a Hitspot Austria production.