Embracing Pleasure and Self-Love: A Transformative Journey with Dr. Jordin Wiggins

In Episode #130 of the Self Love & Sweat podcast, we dive into a captivating discussion on the concept of pleasure and its profound impact on our overall well-being. Joined by the incredible Dr. Jordin Wiggins, a pleasure expert, naturopathic doctor, and author, this episode is a transformative journey towards embracing self-love and redefining our relationship with pleasure.

Timestamps to help you navigate this episode:

(0:00) Intro
(0:20) FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
(1:52) Embracing Pleasure and Self-Love
(6:41) Understanding Women’s Pleasure and Antidepressant Use
(19:12) Sponsor: Snap Supplements 25% OFF using code LUNDEN25
(20:14) Finding Pleasure and Overcoming Cultural Taboos
(36:35) Exploring Pleasure and Communication in Relationships

Unveiling the Stigma Around Pleasure

Dr. Jordin sheds light on why words like “pleasure” often evoke discomfort, and the significant role societal, cultural, and religious beliefs play in shaping our response. We unravel the connection between pleasure and its impact on our physical and mental health, emphasizing its crucial role in fostering happiness and nurturing relationships.

Anhedonia: Exploring the Inability to Feel Pleasure

The conversation delves into the concept of anhedonia, the medical term for the inability to experience joy or pleasure. We examine the concerning prevalence of antidepressant prescriptions for women and discuss how stress and overwork can impair our ability to find pleasure. Dr. Jordin reminds us that it is not our individual failing but a societal norm perpetuated by an imbalanced prioritization of others over self-care.

Recognizing and Breaking the Cycle

Practical steps to break free from the cycle of stress and reclaim pleasure are explored. From simple acts like organizing our purse or indulging in a cup of coffee to cultivating feminine movement through activities like pole dancing or salsa, we discover the transformative power of reconnecting with our pleasure centers. Dr. Jordin highlights the significance of community support and open communication within intimate partnerships as crucial elements in this journey of self-discovery.

Introducing the Feelings Wheel

An invaluable tool introduced in this episode is the feelings wheel. We learn how this powerful resource can aid in understanding and expressing our emotions, thus facilitating the process of self-love and self-discovery. By developing a deeper awareness of our emotions, we gain the ability to cultivate meaningful connections with ourselves and others.

We are reminded of the transformative potential that lies within embracing pleasure and self-love. Dr. Jordin’s insights provide us with the tools and understanding to break free from societal constraints, prioritize our well-being, and embark on a journey towards a more joyful and fulfilling life. Let this episode serve as a reminder that pleasure is not a luxury, but an essential component of holistic health and happiness. Join us in redefining pleasure and embracing self-love on this remarkable journey of personal transformation.


Lunden Souza 0:01

Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you’ll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections, break down barriers and do what sets your soul on fire. I’m your host, Lunden Souza. Hey, have you grabbed your free Self Love and Sweat monthly calendar? yet This calendar is so amazing. It comes right in your inbox every single month to help you have a little nugget of wisdom, a sweaty workout, a mindset activity, just a little something, something to help keep you focused and motivated and keep that momentum towards your goals. So every day, when you get this calendar, you’ll see a link that you can click that will lead to a podcast episode or a workout or something that will be very powerful and quick to read. and then you’ll also see, on the top left corner of every single day, there’s a little checkbox in the calendar And what that is is that’s for your one thing. You can choose one thing every month, or it can be the same, something that you want to implement and make this something that you can easily implement, like daily meditation or getting a certain amount of steps or water, for example, and staying hydrated and even taking your supplements. This can be something if you want to get more regular doing a particular habit and routine. you can choose what that checkbox means. So if you want your self-love and sweat free monthly calendar delivered right to your inbox every month on the first of the month, go to lifelikelunden.com/calendar. Fill out the form really quickly and you will have your calendar in your inbox within a few short minutes. That’s lifelikelunden.com/calendar. Go, get yours for free and enjoy this episode.Welcome back to the podcast. Today’s special guest is Dr Jordin. Dr Jordin is a pleasure expert, naturopathic doctor and author. She’s the CEO of the Pleasure Collective, a coaching community for high achieving women who want more pleasure in their lives in and out of the bedroom. She’s the author of the Pink Canary, an investigation into the hidden secret to optimal women’s wellness, and the host of the top ranked global podcast, the Pleasure Principles. She’s a regular contributor to articles and TV, including Cityline, cosmopolitan and the Washington Post, advocating for women’s health and right to pleasure. Welcome to the show, dr Jordin. So happy to have you.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 2:46

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to chat.

Lunden Souza 2:51

Yeah, I haven’t discussed really this topic on the podcast specifically. I think maybe there’s been some conversations where we’ve dabbled into maybe some of what we’ll cover today. But I love what you’re doing in the world and I love what you’ve been sharing and I’m excited to dive in. So I want to talk about the word pleasure first, because when I think of the word or I shouldn’t say when I think of the word pleasure, but there are certain words that I’ve noticed and I’m sure you have too that are like taboo, that are uncomfortable for people to think about or say or desire, like I want pleasure, I desire pleasure. Even to say that word for some people can feel uncomfortable. I remember recently having a conversation with someone. I was sharing a beat supplement and I was just kind of sharing the benefits of it with her and I was like oh yeah, it’s good for erections too, and it was like as if I said like I don’t know the worst word in the entire world. So those are words that are like in my everyday language. I forget sometimes. I’m just, you know, open in terms of those word choices. But I want to start there. Why are there words like that that bring up those feelings of discomfort, or, oh my gosh, or what did you just say?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 4:10

I love that, and you were even reminding me of my own journey, because now it’s like pleasure, that’s my mission, that’s what I’m here on this earth to do. But in the beginning, like when I was doing my pre-med degree, it like that word would have made, like given me a little ick, it would have made me, you know, pull back a bit, it would have given me pause, and that is because of the societal, cultural, religious beliefs that we all have indoctrinated into us, that it’s this work hard, check all the boxes, do all the things and then reap, reward, have pleasure, enjoy. And I think reclaiming the word pleasure is really important to me, it’s really important for people to understand, because it’s not a dirty word and it’s a missing piece to so much of our health, happiness and relationships, because so many of us are against feeling pleasure at all, like doing something because it feels good and not because you earned it. So so many people have the belief that everything on my to-do list needs to be done or things need to be perfect before I can enjoy myself, before I can have sex. And it really impacts our physical and mental health, as well as our relationships and intimacy, and it even plays a role outside of the bedroom, like when’s the last time you did something to feel good? Because it felt good, like going and sitting and feeling the sun on your skin, just because playing with your kids, like in being totally present, totally uninhibited, relaxed, so it’s well. I guess we can get into this, but it’s a. It becomes so that we are anhedonic, and that’s the medical term for inability to feel pleasure or joy. And how I saw this showing up initially when I had my women’s health clinic, was the increasing number of women prescribed and taking antidepressants. And I was like what is going on here? Women are twice as likely to be prescribed an antidepressant than men. It was at a rate of one in four women was on an antidepressant. And just, I am not pill shaming. If you are on an antidepressant and it makes you feel good and it helps you function, I am 100% all for that. Where I was seeing the issue was it was like the increase. It had increased like 65% since the 90s and I am sure, or since 99 and I am sure if we had updated statistics post pandemic, it would be even higher. So just the alarming increase in antidepressant prescription and the fact that so many people were taking them or didn’t want to take them, because they are like I don’t really feel like that’s my problem and what I saw was their problem was lack of pleasure, yeah.

Lunden Souza 7:59

And from what you said about you know, feeling like we need to wait till all the to-dos, all the lists, all the things are done and then we can have pleasure, is so, yeah, it’s just interesting because I’m sure that women come to you, as women come to me, where they are trying to do all the things and they have the never ending to-do list and they have a bajillion things on their plate, and so I can see how that can be a vicious cycle of really like lack of pleasure or like pleasure deprivation, because you’re waiting till all of this is done to then do this, but then this list just gets longer and longer and more expectations and doing things for everybody else too, especially women are so, in a beautiful way, nurturing others oriented, and it can be very balanced, but sometimes we can just be so focused on everybody else that how do you get women to see, okay, I’m in this programming of thinking all this has to be done, and then this, I’m also in this programming of thinking all of this and all of this and all of this has to be done, and I can see how that spiral can. Just, you know. So what’s that? Like that snipping point of the spiral, or what do you do specifically to help women see that? You know the more that I wait till this to get this, I might not ever get it, but how do they really realize?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 9:25

that Great question, what I need women to understand. And first it’s an awareness piece. First, because as part of us being raised like for generations to be of service, just biologically nurturing, to have that other focus, like we’re constantly is everyone else okay or things good, like worry about everyone else. We are last on the to do list and our joy is even and our pleasure is even further down on the to do list, so with it. So that’s how we were sort of raised. And then we add in that now women are working outside of the home as well as doing all of the invisible workload things. In most partnerships there’s an imbalance in the invisible workload and then it starts to take a toll on our health and our desire and all those other things. But what women need to know and need to understand and this is humans in general but when we are stressed, when we have nervous system dysregulation and then like our hormone cascades and our neurotransmitters, like everything changes with us physiologically and we know that the pleasure centers in our brain are turned off and I’m oversimplifying for the sake of things, but the more stress we have, the less pleasure we feel. So there’s that inverse relationship. So oftentimes we’re looking at other women online, or maybe we have friends or people in our social circle and we’re like, how does it eat? Like how does she make it look easy? Or oh, it’s easy for her because she doesn’t have kids, or it’s easy for her because she doesn’t run a big company, or or or. But it is the conscious choice, the practice of pleasure. Like we actually have to make this a focus to change it, because biologically, we’re wired. When we are stressed out, we are wired. We are focused on survival. It’s like one foot in front of the other. When we sit to relax, like we’re not actually relaxed, we’re thinking about what needs to get done, or we’re feeling guilty that we’re relaxing. Or we’re having sex and we’re looking at the clock, wondering when it’s going to be over, thinking about the email that we need to send, like we’re not actually present. We’re in fight or flight almost all the time. So everyone wants these simple tips, these like let’s how do we fix this? Well, a part of it is understanding that from being in that state like high achieving over giving people pleasing which describes all of the women that I work with that means the pleasure centers in your brain are turned off and there is so much resistance, so much biological resistance to pleasure at that point that even just understanding oh nothing’s wrong with me, I’m not broken Like even just that understanding of I’ve gotten myself into this state and I mean you know so has society and culture and women, being of service and doing the invisible workload behind the scenes has like propped up. You know just that’s a whole other conversation, though.

Lunden Souza 13:17

But so getting people are, getting women to realize, hey, it’s not that there’s anything wrong or you did something wrong. It’s just like, hey, when this switch is on, this one can’t really be on, and that’s like the biology of what it is or the physiology of it. And is that help? I think for me personally and for the clients I work with, knowledge is helpful. Like knowing that something is a certain type of way can be really helpful. Like, oh, it’s not that there’s anything wrong with me or my parts or my pleasure system or whatever. It’s just like I’m in this state and when this state is turned on, like this one, it’s like when the oven is on you don’t touch it, so it’s like when this date is turned on, we can’t feel that pleasure. And does that help them, that knowledge of their biology, to like, understand or understand that?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 14:05

Yes, and you can kind of see their shoulders relax and they’re like, oh okay, because they’ve been reading the blogs, listening to the podcast, going to the gynecologist, like trying to figure out what’s wrong with me. And really there’s nothing wrong with you. Your body is doing what it should be doing. So what we need to do is make different choices around pleasure practice and then that looks different depending on what stage, like how turned off those pleasure centers are, because you can’t tolerate pleasure at that point. So even if your partner comes up to you and tries to touch you, you’re like get away from me. Or some women, even in that state, still have a drive. But it’s like it comes from that fight or flight state, not from the like relaxed, receiving really long multiple orgasm state. Like that is only achieved when the pleasure centers in our brain are turned on, because touch isn’t as pleasurable when we’re stressed out, because our body, our brain, is diverting blood flow and nerve innervation to our heart, our lungs, like those fight or flight organs. It’s not like making touch feel really good. Yeah.

Lunden Souza 15:40

Like at that moment your body doesn’t need to make sure that touch feels good, it’s like trying to prevent, survive, other areas and you know, yeah, and that makes total sense. And one of the things I’ve been working on, and maybe this is something I want to get to the pleasure part, the sexual, the intimacy stuff too, because I think that’s so important. But when I think of pleasure and like reward systems, at least in my programming, it’s like the more that is done, the better, and once it’s done, then we’re kind of what you mentioned, like once it’s done, then you celebrate and you get excited. And what I’ve been working on is finding pleasure in the pursuit and it’s a very conscious activation because for me it’s more just like okay, once this is all I even have, like you know, my list here of things I wanted to accomplish this week and just certain things. And I wanted to make sure when I made this list that in that pursuit there was pleasure. So, like yesterday, even though there is this list, I was like, okay, you mentioned sun on the face, love it. I took myself, I put myself in the sun, I was reading a little bit 15, 20 minutes just to enjoy the process and then come back to what I needed to do Now. Is that, you know, part of very natural for me? No, it’s becoming more natural because I’ve been working on it over the last years. But making pleasure a part of the process, a part of the to do that’s something that I’m really working on, and I wonder if that’s something that you coach your clients on too. Is like pleasure in the process 100%.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 17:14

That is in like our foundational model for pleasure principles, like my signature program, is how do we get those? And I call them pleasure anchors throughout your day, because if we want it, most people’s pleasure centers are like off or practically off. And if we want to start receiving more pleasure, living in that you know state where we have energy and things flow and we feel alive. And I always tell people, like, think of a time in your life where you were having amazing sex. What did that feel like? Like how much energy did you have, what was what was going on? And they’re like things feel, felt easy, it was like I could conquer the world. Right, that is what life with pleasure centers on feels like. So we need those pleasure anchors throughout our day and I’m going to give you some examples so we can start turning on that center in our brain and keep it on. And that’s why, like I call the women that I work with super women. Super women because they run companies, manage big departments, they’re surgeons, the end, they’ve achieved a lot from a place of hustle, from masculine, from grind. And then they’re like okay, like this has gotten me really far, but I want to learn about how this looks with ease or how this looks with pleasure. So we can’t take. You know, somebody that runs a multi-million dollar company and and yeah, they might even have freedom to go to the yoga classes or flex their schedule or whatever, but if they are not feeling pleasure, it’s a totally different ball game. So what do we do?

Lunden Souza 19:12

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Dr. Jordin Wiggins 21:11

Little things that bring us joy, make us feel good. So, you know, sun on the skin that’s something for me that makes me feel amazing, and I’m Canadian, so it is not always that we can do that. So during the months that I can get out in the sun, or I need to fly to the sun in the winter. Or an example I was working on some content this morning and I had about an hour and before we recorded this and I would normally go like, okay, what else can I get done? What else can I cross off this list? I went to my favorite coffee shop, got my iced americano and wrote a couple emails and it just felt good to change up the environment, to treat myself with this coffee. Other things that I have women do clean their purse. Something simple doesn’t have to cost a lot of money. But if you take literally five minutes after listening to this podcast, or do it right now, and you clean it and you tidy it, then the next time for like a week when you go in to look at it, you’re gonna be like, oh, this was like, this feels so nice. Like, look at how clean this is. It’s gonna feel good and it’s like pleasure begets pleasure. Like the more pleasure we have, the more pleasure we learn to tolerate. Then our pleasure centers in our brain are like they’re back online, which is awesome, even in. We like we restrict so much, you know. Like have a drink in your favorite wine glass. Like you know what I mean. Like we save the good towels or sheets or whatever so much and it’s just like no live. Now, do what feels good. Now, if you’re making dinner, I have people make a playlist. Like we actually have our own playlist in the Pleasure Collective that we all add to, but it’s these like feel good songs. So make a playlist of songs that make you feel amazing and put one on while you’re doing something Monday. Because, again, all the women that I work with they’re listening to podcasts, they’re consuming content, they’re doing this self development, whatever. So all the things all the time, but we are not happy. So it’s this syndrome that I. It’s like you have it all, you have so much to be grateful for in your life, but you don’t have it all. There’s something missing.

Lunden Souza 24:08

Yeah, the. I like what you mentioned about the purse cleaning. It’s also it reminds me. It’s like a yeah, it reminds you of the intention. It’s like, yeah, we might clean our purse every day and do that. But if you tell yourself, hey, this is going to be like my thing, that I do for me to feel good in this moment because I’m working on adding more of those things in my life, so let me do this, and then when you go back, it’s like, not that you just see the clean person get happy, but you see the clean person, you remember the intention behind it and that’s what I really love. I also love the music. One two. One of my favorite songs right now is called Good Morning by Max Frost. No, I need to.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 24:45

It’s so good you have to. It’s a good. I’m actually just going to Spotify this right right now.

Lunden Souza 24:51

Yeah, so I listen to it sometimes in the morning, but where I found myself most listening to it is when I’m walking, because I travel a lot and I’m in the airport a lot is when I’m walking like from terminal to terminal. I’ll put that song on and I have my little carry on and my carry on is like my little dance partner. I’m just like walking through listening to that song and that’s really powerful and I’ve associated that song with just like yeah, that I mean when you listen to it and anybody listening when you listen to the song, you can’t help but kind of like move your shoulders a little bit to it, cause the beat and the language and the words are so empowering. But it’s like a song I almost say. You know I don’t listen to it like all the time, but I know when I’m in those moments of just like wanting to feel that pleasure, that bliss, but in a kind of chaotic environment like in the airport or when I’m doing, you know, just kind of like a lot of stuff happening, I just like.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 25:43

I love that. Yeah, exactly, and we have like. So I’m a big proponent of feminine movement, like I love moving, moving my body in any way, but I think we really miss the mark on on feminine movement. So, like pole dancing, chair dancing, like any salsa, like any form that of dance that we move our hips and shoulders and it’s very sensual and so many ancient cultures. That was just a part of it and we’ve lost that.

Lunden Souza 26:28

Yeah, I remember that when I was a kid I did Polynesian dancing like with you know, shaying your hips, right, I loved it. It was like my favorite thing ever. My dad came to one performance and was like you can’t do this, you’re quitting, and made me quit because he didn’t like that. I was like shaking my hips and wearing like the coconut shells and then like the, the drummers, like they’re very active in how they. It’s cultural, it’s not like they’re cat calling, it’s just the cultural of the yay and like the sounds you know while you’re dancing. And my dad was like no, you know, so I can, I just this. I just not that. I just remembered this like I’ve thought of this story before, but that just like because this is perfect.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 27:10

So what did that tell you, like? What was the message that you internalized as a young girl from that?

Lunden Souza 27:22

Yeah, good question. I mean, yeah, that because I’m really processing this right now, because it didn’t change my expression of myself. But I think what it really the message was was like that I’m not in control of my body, like I can’t shake my hips or do my dance if I want to. I mean, I don’t remember how old I was. I think maybe I was like 10 or 12 or something, so pretty young. But when I think about how that could contribute to recurring themes that maybe I’ve come up with in the work I’ve done on myself is just kind of like yeah, that was another point where like no, blondin can’t do that with her body. No, blondin can’t do that, you know, and I I don’t know. That’s kind of what it what.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 28:10

I’m and yes, and this is why because I’m a sexual abuse survivor domestic violence survivor Like I’ve seen some shit. Okay, I’ve been through some shit and tons of healing work. But women that do my programs and work with me, we have all had some form of sexual abuse and trauma. Just by growing up in culture. And that story that you told about your dad and I am we’re not doing a comparison thing here, like I’m not comparing, you know, this sexual abuse to that sexual abuse. I’m just saying that, as women in culture, it’s like our sexuality is to be feared if we get attention, or like we’re, really you know you’re moving your body in a way that’s garnering attention and your dad’s like no, like that’s off limits, you can’t do this. Like it’s sending a covert message that, like your sexuality is to be feared, it is not something that you are in control of, like there’s just there’s so many underlying messages to it and we’ve all had that. We’ve all had those stories. And then we wonder why one in two women has sexual dysfunction globally. Like 50% of women will have sexual dysfunction in their lifetime, so difficulty getting yeah, what is sexual dysfunction? Difficulty getting aroused and staying aroused, desire issues so like not desiring sex, pain with sex and difficulty orgasming. So and if you think about that, it probably like I’ve had pelvic floor dysfunction issues, I’ve had periods in my life where desire or arousal has been an issue. So but when we’re constantly taught like we get those messages from media from our parents, from I went to Catholic school growing up that like our sexuality is to be feared and it is not ours and if we attract too much attention that way it’s bad, we are, you know, sluts or whatever other words there are to describe women and really there’s no male equivalent to those. So it’s like we grow up with all of these messages and yet we are expected to be these extremely sexual beings behind closed doors for our partner’s pleasure, like it’s really messed up when you think about it.

Lunden Souza 31:16

So bizarre. The way that you put that is like, yeah, we’re supposed to fear and not have our bodies and our sexuality be our own, but then we’re supposed to be this you know, lirty, sexual, excited. You know person behind closed doors who’s just open and free and not afraid and, you know, feels like they’re enough and worthy of the pleasure, and all that when our whole life.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 31:37

That’s been, yeah, that our whole life. That’s been not the message that we’ve received. So there’s this, such as cognitive dissonance when it comes to integrating our sexuality and that’s part of the work that I help women do, because not only does like anhedonia and the sexual dysfunction issues, not only does it impact your physical health and well-being, but it’s also impacting relational health and like marriages and family systems. So, yeah, it’s a lot, it’s big.

Lunden Souza 32:15

It’s big, it’s big, it’s big. I really love what you share on social media. I, you know it’s nice to observe people and then connect with them in real life and see like, oh yeah, that is who they are, that you know. It’s really cool. I’ve had the opposite. So this has been really cool and I love the post that you shared recently. It was a graphic with like a fill in the blank and it was like sex should be blank or sex should yeah, and I was just thinking a lot about a lot of the shoulds, I mean overall in our lives, but especially in that space. And I love the examples you gave of like sex should be in a bed, like end in orgasm End in mutual orgasm.

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 32:59

Yeah, let me add to my own post.

Lunden Souza 33:05

Yeah, and I think people listening, and even myself now, is just like think about what we, what we think about when it comes to sex and the should surrounding it, and when I think about that woman that we talked about, with all the to do list, all the things, and then finally the to do list is done, so it’s like sex is okay now, and then we come to the list of what it should look like and how we should be and how we should feel, and it feels very, yeah, limiting and suffocating and overwhelming. And so what, what should from your experts base Like what I know, what I think sex should be. But like what, when you’re working with your clients, what’s really like the shoulds that work, like the shoulds that actually like real people, real women doing all the things can actually like take to the bedroom or to the couch?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 33:57

Love it, and then something that you said just sparked something. So so many people are having sex based off this crap script that we inherited from our very dismal sexual health education or lack of sexual health education. So so many people have never had permission to explore their desires or explore what sexuality is and what it’s been in different cultures and different times and what they might like Like. Sex, you know, is generally been some kissing, like, and this is what I call checkbox sex some kissing, some touching. Maybe somebody goes down on somebody, somebody goes down on somebody else penis and vagina. Goal is mutual orgasm and we call it a day and that is like literally going to the same restaurant and ordering the same thing off the menu for your whole life and then really it’s like oh, there’s this whole menu, I could go to these different restaurants. So to me, and what I work with women on, is sex should be whatever you desire it to be, and where the problem is is that women will look at you and go blank, like I don’t even know what I want, what I like, or like I know I kind of like this, but that’s it. Like there we have this block, this wall up.

Lunden Souza 35:35

And how do you help them take down that wall to be able to say I kind of know what? Or I guess it’s a gradual process of experiencing what they think is pleasurable, and then a little bit more?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 35:48

So this is what’s really cool is, since COVID I started doing things online and in community and I mean I take a small number of one-on-one clients but, being on a call with other women discussing these things in a safe place, my clients tell me they’re like that was a year of therapy in one hour, because the shame starts to evaporate, the feeling seen, like to feel seen and witnessed and known on that intimate level with other women that are like, oh my God, me too. It is like it’s so healing. I have goosebumps and it’s ironic because so, coming from a medical model and seeing patients one-on-one, and I started the Pleasure Collective with one-on-one clients and my business coach at the time she was like you need to do groups. Like your mission is too big. You could help so many women. Like you’re never gonna be able to achieve your mission, which is to reverse the statistic that one and two women have sexual dysfunction. She’s like you’re never gonna be able to do it one-on-one, you need to do groups. And I thought, no, like women aren’t gonna wanna talk about this stuff in groups. And I still always have the resistance from like the super C-suite, super like online famous, or I have resistance from some people to going into a group, but the ironic part is is they all generally end up doing it and once we’re in that, like community, that sisterhood. It’s like why didn’t we, why was this not a part of sexual health education when we were nine or eight? And like learning about our bodies and how they work and doing it in community with other women. That’s supportive and rooted in science.

Lunden Souza 38:06

Like I mean, I can imagine the oh, like I yeah, I could. I just somehow I’m feeling it now Like the relief, the oh, I’m not alone. Oh, you experienced that too Like yes, and I don’t think you can always get that in that one-on-one environment. And I love that about groups too is because, yeah, there’ll be some people who are more resistant or more soft spoken, but there will always be that person who’s just ready to share and ready to open up and it’s like they’re the can opener and everybody else gets to open up because of those people. So I love all people that are in groups, obviously, but there’s so much respect for the different roles that different people play based on who they are in those groups, and when those people start to share and open up, other people start to share and open up. One more question I have for you, because I love words and communication and this is something I coach on and work on relentlessly pursuing that in my life. The woman that we talked about to do lists pleasures last she comes into your group rely, okay, but how do then? What words do you encourage your clients to use then when talking to their partners about the feeling of disconnect or what they might find pleasure, especially when this isn’t something they’re used to sharing. It’s not like all of a sudden you come out the gate hey, I like it when you do like, maybe people can. But I also know that there’s kind of a growing and a reconnecting process through the communication, not just through the sexual connection. So what are some words, phrases, ways that women can approach their partner to share, that like they’re working on this, they acknowledge it and they’re ready to connect, or how can they share maybe a little bit more insight in this journey that would be helpful to share with their partner? Because I think sometimes we share all the things and it’s nice to have the group to unpack here and the coaching and whatever. What words can we say to our partner?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 40:08

I feel and that’s a hard one, right, and I feel with a feeling word and then leaving it. So that woman, like the woman that you described, the woman that I work with, she’s very good at doing and getting things done and not so good at feeling like we’re in our heads all the time and not in our bodies, not in our feelings. So I feel and I desire, and it sounds so simple, but there is so much internal work that we have to do first and it’s so funny because, like in a three month time span, and they’ll go into the program and their partners will be like, oh, this is exciting, like we’re gonna rekindle our sex life, and then in the first half of the work, it’s all internal work, it’s on us, because we need to figure out what do we feel, what do we desire, to even be able to communicate that and give ourselves permission for those things, right, and that’s where the community really comes in to expedite the healing. So it sounds so easy and women can ask for their needs to be met, like in a boardroom, or they can manage their employees, but when it comes to intimate needs and desires and feelings, we really struggle and we can have a whole life with someone, kids been together for 10 years. But we can’t say, babe, a little to the left. Or we can’t say I feel alone.

Lunden Souza 42:09

Yeah, yeah, I feel I desire so simple in terms of the person listening being able to take away or write this down quickly, but, like you mentioned, filling in the blank with a feeling word, and I love I don’t know what you use. I love the feelings. I always really love, we do the feelings wheel so much. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I just recently learned that there’s a feelings wheel pillow that you can buy and I can’t wait to get one. So I wanna put it right on my couch so that when anybody comes in they can see it. I didn’t know that. I sent an email recently to my newsletter about the feelings wheel and just what feelings versus not feelings are, and someone wrote back and was like did you know this is a pillow? And I was like no, I knew it was a key chain, but I didn’t know it was a pillow. And I knew both. So anyways, yeah, that’s something I use too, because it’s just cool to look at the variety of possible feelings and things that we can pull from, because sometimes I think I’m feeling something you know when you look at the feelings wheel and you’re like no, actually it’s more of this. I just kind of forgot about that word, you know. So it’s nice to go in and be able to just tap in a little bit more into those feeling words instead of like I feel like you always, do you know that’s?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 43:20

not an actual feeling. And then when we see the actual feelings and can identify them, then it’s like, ooh, like this is scary, this is scary to share, and a lot of super women. It’s like, well, we just need a date night a week. And it’s like you don’t need the date night. Like the date night is not going to solve this problem. It’s a bandaid Like. So what’s the desire underneath the date night? And when you had to coordinate scheduling and what to do with the kids or plan the date night, and then like so is the desire to feel seen, appreciated, like paid, like you know, phones away, paid attention to, like somebody to gaze into your eyes and really see you as a desire to be ravished is to be left alone. Like we really need to unpack those things. And sometimes for men for it’s a lot of times like, well, I desire sex or physical intimacy, but they’re doing that with a superwoman or with a partner. That’s like unfulfilled and trying to get it over with. And it’s the same thing. Like what do they actually desire? They are really probably desiring connection, but not knowing how to communicate it in a way that isn’t sex, because they’ve been taught that like that’s how you show and express love.

Lunden Souza 45:01

Yeah, I love this conversation and I love, yeah, just the work that you’re doing and the way that you’re opening up dialogue for women among women and women with their partners and and everything. And I want to honor your time because I know you have client calls and people that you’re working with today and I know that there are people listening, women listening that would love to know where they can learn more from you and maybe get connected. Do some group coaching or all those things. Can you let us know how we can stay connected?

Dr. Jordin Wiggins 45:28

Yes, so my Instagram is the best place to reach me at Dr Jordin Wiggins and my podcast is another great place to find just all the things that I talk about the pleasure principles podcast and I’m hosting a free three day live event. I forgot to ask you when you were going to air this, but July 25th to 27th I’ll give you guys the details on that. But we’re had a field desire had to turn those pleasure centers back on. That’s like I just the pleasure cure. I’m just so excited to teach on that at the end of the month.

Lunden Souza 46:17

I will gladly move this episode to a spot to where people listening could join that three day. It’ll probably be. Yeah, I’ll let you know off air what specific date I think will work, but we’ll definitely make sure that we get this up so that way anyone listening could join that three day event and still be in a timely fashion. I appreciate you so much. Thanks for everything you bring to the world, to the podcast, just everything. And, yeah, thank you guys for listening and connect with Jordin on Instagram and her podcast, as well as join her three day event if you’re feeling called to it. Thank you guys for listening and we’ll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of self love and sweat the podcast. Hey, do me a favor wherever you’re listening to this podcast, give us a review. This really helps a lot and share this with a friend. I’m only one person and with your help, we can really spread the message of self love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I’m London Suza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose, fueled by self love and sweat. This podcast is a hit spot. Austria production.