We have the opportunity at any time to shift our perception and change how we see things, feeling about things and interact with the world — but how? Master NLP Practitioner and founder of Life Through Leadership NLP Academy, Aubrie Pohl, is on the podcast talking about exactly that. PLUS, she guides us through a powerful NLP technique to help you gain more clarity about a specific situation in the past or future you might be struggling with. This episode is jam-packed with amazing tools you’re not going to want to miss this!
Episode #78 Change Your Perception Using NLP Techniques w/ Aubrie Pohl
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Lunden Souza: [00:03:48] Enjoy this episode! Get connected self love and sweat, friends. Hey everyone, welcome back to Self Love and Sweat, the podcast today. Our guest is Aubrey Poole and Aubrey is an NLP trainer, human communication specialist as as well as a speaker. And with a collection of 42 alternative education certifications in mindset, leadership and movement, she helps coaches, healers and life learners get NLP certified through her signature life through leadership NLP Academy to learn mental mastery tools for rapid transformation and life empowerment. In her playtime, she enjoys camping, playing music, fire spinning, dancing and being a lifelong learner. And I’ll also add that I went through Aubrey’s NLP Academy. It is so amazing. I’ve actually done it twice and getting ready to take her next one. So she has been such a powerful not only friend but coach and mentor in my life and she’s so great at what she does. So I’m super excited to have Aubrey here today to share with us some great tools so that we can, yeah, change our mindset or as you would say, change your words and change your world and show up. Yeah, a little bit better. So I think that’s really going to be the goal today is that we feel a bit more empowered, a bit more excited about life. And Aubrey is so amazing. I’m such a huge fan. So welcome to the podcast Aubrie!
Aubrie Pohl: [00:05:09] Yay. Thank you so much. Lunden I’m super happy to be here and have this discussion with you and just grateful for our friendship in general the past few years and the fact that you bring this kind of platform to women through the Self Love and Sweat podcast because it’s so essential, right? You take everything beyond just the physical form. You go into the mental strategies that people are experiencing these days. So thank you as well.
Lunden Souza: [00:05:32] Yeah. Thanks so much for being here. Let’s start with a little bit on your journey. So what got you into NLP like and we’ll talk about what NLP is to for those of you listening that are like, huh, what is that? But what first got you into it? And then becoming a coach and teaching it is very different than just being a student. So kind of what got you into it?
Aubrie Pohl: [00:05:54] Beautiful. Yeah. In a similar way, I started in the fitness industry and I was working at a gyms for years and I was working at a specific gym and had one client. And at that point I was getting into leadership and what it means to really represent myself uniquely, but then also help people create their own embodiment of who they are and not through just physical movement, but through mental strategies as well. And one of my clients was like, Oh, I do leadership seminars, and I went to his leadership seminar and behold The Serendipity of Life. It was an NLP seminar and it was an introduction into neuro linguistic programming. And at first I was like, What is neuro linguistic programming? And when you look at this long word, it’s neuro brain. So neurology in the way that your brain is structuring reality and then linguistic is language patterns, sentence structure, conscious communication and the programming is how that has all been interpreted in your subjective experience, because you’re not necessarily experiencing the world, you’re experiencing the world as you are. And so all of those filters that you have experienced your entire life really affect how you’re showing up for yourself today and through that educational system. For instead of going off to a big college and getting a collegiate degree, I took that route. So I took four and a half years, five years, almost six years now to really study what this neuro linguistic programming is. And through that, I went through practitioner training, master practitioner training, trainers, training, masters trainers training, and now I am a master trainer of NLP and I help people learn the technology and get certified.
Lunden Souza: [00:07:33] Yeah. And you’re so good at, you’re such a master at being a master master practitioner, however many masters there are in there. Maybe a lot of you listening have been to different seminars or take in different courses, either online or offline, but there’s not that many that I’ve been to. In fact, I can’t really think I can maybe think of a couple off the top of my head right now keynotes that really captivated me. But like when you go through Aubrey’s NLP training, it’s two weekends in a row, like all day Friday, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, two weekends in a row, the in-person one that I did. She also has online options for those of you that are not local to Southern California. But she brings it like you bring the heat, like you’re super funny, you’re engaging, you just are able to tap into everyone’s so many different learning styles for people and help us. Yeah, to really absorb it. And one of the things, Aubrey, is like, if you want to take a nap and you need a little power nap, take it. If you need to eat and you need a snack, take that. And so it’s really awesome to be in that space because it’s super casual, I would say. But like so next level in terms of learning and information and so it’s super cool and you totally bring the heat there. You touched a little bit on what NLP is and I know that from you like we’re all always doing NLP, so whether you have never heard of it before or this is your you’ve heard of it a bunch, we’re all always doing it. And so can you kind of describe a little bit of what that means?
Aubrie Pohl: [00:08:57] Yes, definitely. And thanks for mentioning that, because sometimes when people. Right. Hear the word or they’re like, oh, great, another thing that I have to learn that I have to spend time learning and figure out and more. So NLP has been how you’ve been experiencing reality your entire life. So when you go into Grandma’s house and you smell the cookies, you have that feeling, that warm feeling inside of you. There’s so many representations that our life has shown us of how we are taking in the data of everything happening in our life and how we’re interpreting it into our experience. So that’s why you always have some type of neural linguistic programming in your mind, you know, when you have like that limiting belief that says like, Oh, I can’t go in there, I’m not a social person or like I can’t work out by myself at the gym. Like I’ll look silly stuff like that. And that kind of programming is in your brain. And so you listening to that, you’re listening to the neural linguistic programming that’s already there. And what we do in these seminars is really focus on what that is. And is it empowering you? Is it serving you, or are there things that you want to change about the programming that is currently there? You know, sometimes we learn these things from our parents and we’re like, Hey, is that me or is that my mom speaking through me? Because I updated that programming and I received that from her. And so when we say that NLP is what we’re already doing, it helps her release a lot of the ease that comes from the overwhelming. That could be like, I need to learn this whole new thing. It’s not so much about learning a new thing. It’s taking even more awareness of what is already there, which can be super empowering for any individual that learns.
Lunden Souza: [00:10:44] Nlp Yeah, totally. Awareness is a word that really comes up when I think about NLP. It’s like sometimes we didn’t realize that our program. King was programmed that way. And then we realized like, Oh, that’s the way that it is. And here are some tools to help me switch that programming or have a more empowering programming, or have a programming that’s congruent with who I say I want to be. And so awareness is really a big, a great single word way to describe NLP. And I think about that a lot. It’s like once you see it and you’re aware of it, you can’t really unsee it. It’s like, Oh, and there’s more and there’s more. So today, I mean, there are so many concepts in NLP that are so amazing and we could talk about a bunch of them. And I already told Aubrey, I’m like, I know this is your first time on the podcast, but you’ll probably be coming back because there’s going to be other things that we can totally go over. But today we’re going to take the position of perception and the way that we view things. As Aubrey said, we view them the way we are. And so, you know, sometimes we’re only seeing things from our perspective or we can’t escape different ways of viewing things. And so today I want to talk to you and pick your brain a lot about these types of perceptions. So how are we seeing the world and how can we shift our perception?
Aubrie Pohl: [00:12:04] Yeah. You know, there’s a few things to consider when it comes to this idea of perception, because when we look and experience our life, we have many filters inside of our mind, right? We have a lot of beliefs. We have values, the things that we care about. We have attitudes, we’ve got traumas. We have also language patterns, culture, a lot of things affect how we filter in our reality. And from there, when we’re talking about perception, there are three different types of perception or positions that will call them as well. The first position is like seeing through your eyes, and that means that you’re seeing things through the embodiment of who you are, your uniqueness, and you’re really focused on that internal experience of how how am I seeing things and how is this is this empowering me? Is it not helping me? Is it not serving me? So we see the first positions about seeing things through your eyes. And a lot of people get this because, you know, the feelings that come up in your body, right? And that kind of interpersonal relationship or intrinsic relationship that you have with yourself is very important for you to understand how your body is responding to your life and when, you know, when you get nervous walking into a room or you get nervous talking to a certain individual, that’s a feeling that you and only you are experiencing. So you’re in first person and this can be helpful. And you know, in some ways it can be less empowering if you’re one of those people that only focuses on themselves, that forgets to think about other people, you know.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:13:45] And a worst case scenario would be like a narcissist, right? Where they’re only in first perception. But now the second position. Second position is about trying on other people’s shoes. You know, what would it be like in this person’s model of the world? What would it be like? How would they respond? A little key that helps with this is like if you’re a very introverted person and sometimes you feel a little socially anxious, anxious, going somewhere, you can ask yourself, Well, how would an extroverted person respond to this situation? So all of a sudden you go from first position to second position, someone outside of you, and this is super handy. So when you walk into a party instead of being like, Oh, this is me, I’m a socially anxious introvert, you’re like, Well, let me try on an extrovert. And you can embody this other experience walking into a room and all of a sudden try on what it’s like to be an extrovert. And who knows, maybe you’ll like that even more. And you can slowly alter your perception of belief because you try it on a different position. Now, the empowering thing of the second position is someone who is almost so empathetic to a fault that they don’t consider themselves. They only consider the other people. And you’re you’re a pushover. You’re a people pleaser. You’re like a staircase because you’re doing so much and giving so much to other people that you forget to think about yourself.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:15:10] So you’re kind of stuck in that second position. The third position is like the fly on the wall, the complete outside perspective from a non-biased form, a non emotional form like a fly on the wall is in a human experience. So they’re not going to have like the beliefs and filters and values of a human. So you can see life through this and kind of disconnect from emotions and people that do this a lot are probably surgeons, police officers that see some gnarly stuff and don’t really want to attach too many emotions to the situation. So they’ll become a little more disassociated from emotion. And so that third person perspective, very non biased and we’ll talk about other ways how that can be useful and in an empowering way. People that are in third position are just pretty much detached from emotion, very numb, very disassociated from life in general and can can feel like they haven’t found that connection to true human form because they’re not in it. They’re in the, you know, the fly on the wall kind of perception. So when we see life as the opportunity to look through these three perceptions, you can now see that a life is full of change and flux and you’re not necessarily always stuck in one. And you can use the concept of these three perceptions to help you through your situations and to gain even more awareness of how you’re viewing the situations that you are already in.
Lunden Souza: [00:16:40] Yes, yes. And so here we are in this world as humans coexisting, and we have our position that we’re maybe predominantly in and our model of the world or internal representation. And somehow we manage to like communicate. And sometimes there can be like great communication. We’re seeing eye to eye and sometimes it’s literally like. Those of you listening, I’m just, like, pushing my hand over my face. It’s just like I’m saying something, and they’re completely not, I don’t know, air quotes, understanding what I’m trying to say. And so what’s happening there with this disconnect, this connect and kind of how can we have more awareness about kind of where we are in that space?
Aubrie Pohl: [00:17:21] Yeah, one of the things that we talk about constantly in NLP is respecting other people’s models of the world, and to respect someone else’s model of the world means that first you get to consider it as well, and you take the effort to be the conscious communicator that is listening to the actual words that they are choosing to use. Because you might be reading the same book just on completely different chapters. Right. And maybe you’ve been in a conversation with somebody. By the end of the conversation, you’re like, Wait, we’re saying the same thing. We have the same goal here, but why aren’t we seeing eye to eye? Well, you’re just speaking different languages because you’re two amazing, beautiful human beings that are just seeing things differently. And the goal here is to come together for a win win and trying to build the bridge. Now, you might be speaking different representational systems. Like if somebody is like, I just want you to feel the way that I’m feeling. I just I feel like there’s not I feel disheartened because there’s no understanding here. But then the other person’s like, No, I get it. I see the picture that you’re creating. I see what you get. It’s crystal clear for me. But that’s a very that’s a feeling communication with a visual communication. Right. One person is feeling something. I want you to feel another person’s like, no, it’s crystal clear. I see it. But those are two different types of communication systems that might not understand that they’re seeing things the same way, that they’re feeling things the same way because of the words that they’re choosing to use. So the understanding of these different types of communication systems can help you create even more communication and connection with the people that you’re speaking to because you’re understanding this and you won’t get defensive or resistance because you’re like, Oh, we’re reading the same book or just on different chapters right now.
Lunden Souza: [00:19:23] Mm hmm. Yes, totally. And I think that becomes even more empowering when you learn this stuff and you have the awareness of it, because we can all think of a situation where it hasn’t just been like, Oh, ha ha, we’re on a different we’re reading the same book, but in different chapters it can be like super challenging and even to like as an LPI practitioners who have gone through this work or have this awareness and then you are interacting with the rest of the world who maybe doesn’t see it that way or isn’t a conscious communicator and things like that. So what would be some tools there for when. Yeah, sometimes shit hits the fan when we’re not seeing eye to eye are things are are just yeah. Not being communicated in a way that connects.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:20:10] Yeah. What you want to be able to do is, I mean first and foremost is respect their model of the world and we have only control over how we’re responding to our model of the world. So understanding that, you know, sometimes shit hits the fan and some people just walk out of the room when you’re, like, trying to consciously communicate with them, right? So you don’t have control over how someone else responds, but you do have control over how you respond and what words you’re choosing to use. And you can use a lot of words that are. Not projecting anything about the individual. Right. You’re separating the intention from the behavior. So it’s I love you. I just don’t love what you’re doing. Instead of saying, like, you’re an asshole or you’re not doing things right, it’s. Noticing what words that you’re choosing to use because a lot of the words can be vomiting projections and of course, who’s everyone’s going to get defense when it comes to that. So you want to really learn how to sit with the dictionary of words that are coming out of your mouth and you want to make the decisions to decide, am I saying something that is projecting to them directly? You know, people that are quote unquote, hard to communicate with.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:21:33] If you’re like, well, you’re being a brick wall right now, you are directly pointing the finger at them. Right. We know this to point the finger disorder. So you get to make sure that you’re you’re not using words that might increase the chance of resistance and defense once you get through that first layer. And if the person is willing and able to meet you in that place where you are trying to build that win win, then you can start to break down. Well, how are we individually interpreting this same experience? What are the feelings that are coming up? What are we seeing? Are there any like pictures that we’re picturing in our brain? Are there any future anxiety manifestations that are coming up as well? And you break down how each individual is interpreting the experience. Then you have more knowledge of what’s happening within their world and you get to see that other person’s perception. Which brings us back to that. You get to see the second person perception. So having that knowledge, you get to respect their model of the world even more and get to meet them in that space of understanding which can help any and all arguments, especially when it’s hitting the fan.
Lunden Souza: [00:22:49] Yes, totally. And just choosing to. Yeah. To understand a bit more their model of the world and like what you can learn from that situation because we are all doing our best with the tools that we have. And and at the end of the day, like I say this a lot like we’re the common denominator. So it’s not about changing someone else. Or you said like pointing the finger. It’s like, okay, well, what do I have control over? And perception is something that we can shift and it can be challenging, but there are some really cool NLP techniques and things and one of them will share with you today. But that can really help you shift that perspective and realize like, hey, like I’m doing my best, you know, they’re doing their best. Maybe we have different tools in our toolbox, and maybe from my perception, mine are working better. But it’s like, who’s to really say anyways? You know, and you say this a lot too. There’s not like a right. What do you say? There’s not like it’s not right or wrong. It just finished. I know you say something like that.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:23:52] No, I got the quote from an experience in yoga many years ago and it’s like, well, there’s not a good smelling flower or a bad smelling flower. There just is a flower that smells and it helps you come to that neutral space of, again, objective reality rather than adding in your subjective experience or your opinion or your assumption about it. It’s not a the flower doesn’t smell good or bad, it just smells. And then that’s that step back from your judgment, that step back from your assumption and your opinion and it just is, um, hum.
Lunden Souza: [00:24:31] And not to, to shift. But one of the things that I know everyone probably listening has experience because yeah, even just by listening to this podcast, you’re working on personal development, your, you know, being a sponge and absorbing more. And we learn these tactics and we learn these techniques and we have this awareness and we have new yeah, just new tools and ways of viewing the world. And we maybe all have heard this phrase in one form or another, but you know, you have your home and everything’s good and you’re all centered and then you go to like family or maybe like old friends, like the ones that know your triggers. And it can be really challenging then to show up in those situations. And I, I say that with also or I say that to say NLP has been especially this technique with shifting perceptions. And all of that has been.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:25:23] So helpful.
Lunden Souza: [00:25:25] For me with my family to be able to interact with them in a way that is congruent with who I want to be and how I want to show up. I can’t tell you how many moments there were where it was like, Who the heck are you? Like, What? You are doing all this? And then you come home and you interact with your family and like did 16 year old you who like couldn’t go out, like come out and you’re just like, rah rah. And so I know that when we’re working on doing better and showing up better and just, you know, increasing our our tools for for a great life.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:25:57] You know.
Lunden Souza: [00:25:57] There’ll be moments where we have these hiccups and where will be around some of those triggers. And this has been super helpful for me when it comes to that. So I know you’ve had some similar experiences too, because you will often share like kind of funny stories and you’ll share that kind of stuff at the NLP seminars. But it’s just like sometimes there are certain situations in people that then a different side comes out and you’re like, Oh man, oh man.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:26:26] Yeah. You think you’re this like woke conscious individual, and then you go home for a week, right back to your parents house for a week, and all the regression of who you were as a teenager in that household comes up. And that’s where we utilize tools and NLP and understandings of things like anchors. You know, your body and your neurology has been set to respond to certain environments. If you were in that same house for so many years or just in conversation with your mother for so many years, you have a conditioned response to certain things. If your mom says something a certain way, you know, says your middle name and and when you were younger, that would agitate you. That same kind of agitation is going to come up because your neurology has created the pattern of the conditioned response. Now, knowing that, you can start to see that it’s not necessarily who you are. Now you are still that beautiful, conscious, woke individual that’s been doing all the self improvement work. You just have an anchor, you have a conditioned response to a previous circumstance. When you see that, you’re like, okay, you can sit with the anchor. Instead of having that kind of outward projection that you might have had in the past, you can say, this is just an anchor and there are certain techniques and tools that we utilize in NLP, like collapsing anchors, so we can essentially scratch the seed of the neurology that has been set up already. And you can also take that moment of awareness then moving forward, because not everyone does an NLP seminar. So you’ll go home and you’ll have this new understanding of quote unquote conscious communication.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:28:09] And your family probably doesn’t communicate that way. But that’s okay because you still get to sit within that space. And even with those individuals, it’s about holding, holding that space even more. So you can be this person now. And I know that some people go home after experiences like this and their family says, Well, who do you think you are now? You know, I know who you really are. Like you actually throw temper tantrums. You’ve been doing it your whole life and you get to say, This is me now, this is me now. And you really hold the frequency of who you are now because who you are is who you choose to be today. Even if they have certain programming things of using those kind of remarks to agitate you, you get to hold that frequency and hold the space of you deciding how you want to react and respond. And yeah, I mean, you you should never expect yourself to be fully, fully woke and conscious and never have any upsets in your your space again. Like, that’s all a beautiful part of showing you the mirror. That is the external reality. And you know, that’s why we take this lighthearted nature and NLP of more like, okay, let’s work with this. Like let’s not allow it to be something that, you know, succumbs us down and tears us down. Let’s let it be something that says, Wow, look at even more awareness that I get to experience now. So there’s this notion of gratitude that we get to go through life with now. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Lunden Souza: [00:29:47] Yes, totally. And I. I really believe that switching the perception and the activity that we’ll do here shortly, like the perceptual positioning and then also and the learnings that you get from that just kind of switching perspective in a challenging situation that coupled with mental rehearsal, like actually taking the time to think about before you go home and this is really what I do before you go home a couple of days leading up to it, like you know what it looks like, you know what it smells like. You have a clear picture all the senses are involved in in that experience, I’ll just kind of sit there and be like, Okay, how would the version that I’m showing up to be walk through the door? How would she communicate when there and there’s. Yeah. And just kind of like a rehearsal there of, you know, I don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but like for the most part, yeah, I know where my interactions with my mom are and my dad and my brother and my niece and my friends and stuff and just really thinking about like, okay, how would my best self show up and like almost go there before I’m there because I also have been there. And so the perceptual positioning and also the mental rehearsal of yeah, just kind of going there, what am I seeing? What am I smelling? What am I hearing? What am I feeling? And how would my best self show up? And that’s really helped a lot.
Lunden Souza: [00:31:10] And I’d say over the last few months, yeah, it wasn’t really so long ago, but like about three, three or four months ago. And it’s always kind of like a caliber for me of like, okay, when I go home and leave, like was I showing up as the daughter that I want to be? And there were so many times where it was like, Oh hell no, not even close. Like, I’m embarrassed. Like if that was on camera, like, no. And over the last few months, I feel like there’s been more and more wins under my belt. Air quotes, wins of like, Oh yeah, no, I am super proud of how I showed up. And there are moments then when I’m in those situations where I find myself acting or reacting in an old pattern where luckily I have a family will, they’ll give me that grace and I love that too about them, despite them triggering me. Sometimes they give me that grace to be like, Oh, wait, that’s not what I wanted to do. Sorry, I love you. And, you know, kind of back in action there and correcting it there in the moment versus, you know, later on beating myself up over it or something like that. So that’s really helped and the mental rehearsal has been super helpful.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:32:11] Yeah. You’re talking about the beautiful experience of future pacing and you know, you’re putting yourself in the event prior to going to the event. And when you have that kind of that mental practice, in your mind, you get to decide how you want to show up so that when you do show up there, you’ve already previously decided how you want to show up. So when those triggers come, which they will, you get to say, Okay, well, this is what I promised myself of how I get to show up, which can really be a catalyst of how you’re responding to those kind of triggers. And in the moment and I really like that you’re saying the effects of that. Right. And you made another mention about talking in the moment changes because that’s very important. Like you said, when when we do accidentally regress and have that moment of stutter of who we used to be, you know, who says that we can’t literally at that point, when we have the awareness and the recognition that we’re not in tune with the alignment of who we want to be, we stop and we just look at the person that we’re talking to and say, I’m sorry, this is not how I want to show up. Let me think about this for a second. And you just stop everything mid-sentence, everything. And you re decide in that moment of who you decided, who you want to be, and then you shift in the moment and that kind of in the moment, change is being fully present with yourself. And what more can you ask of yourself than to be fully present with the moment.
Lunden Souza: [00:33:41] Yeah, and it’s, it’s a really good feeling to be able to do that and then also to have friendships and relationships where people do that as well. I like being in that space too. When someone takes the time to be like, Wait, I was showing up in a way that’s not how I want to show up. Like or that what we were talking about earlier is like, not the way I want to be talking about that situation. This is how I would have done it better. And I’m like, Cool. All right, game on. Like, I want to be there for every version of you that might be changes over months and years, or those split second changes where you’re like, No, it’s cool. Like, you know, I got you. So I feel like I’m saying that because yeah, we’ll be doing this because we’ll be having hiccups and things we want to like fix and switch. And we also need to have that, that grace and hold that space for people when they’re doing that with us as well. It’s not like, Oh, you did this and did it, but you know, that exchange there, as always, is so awesome and so nice.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:34:35] Yeah.
Lunden Souza: [00:34:35] Go ahead.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:34:36] Absolutely. Yes, definitely. You know, to touch base on that, it’s like, for example, when you’re saying limiting beliefs about yourself, right? Oh, yeah. You know, I’m just not that type of person. I know I won’t be able to do that. And you’re really limiting yourself. And then all of a sudden you hear the words coming out of your mouth and you’re like, Oh, wait, what? Like, I have fitness clients. I was part of something I do as well. And one person will say, No, I can’t lift that. And I’m like, What’d you just say? And they’ll say, Oh, I can’t lift that yet. Or they’ll say, Well, I’m super weak. And I’m like, I’ll say, What did you say? And they’ll say, Well, I’m learning how to be stronger. You know, those are two different types of realities, and you just get to change how it’s coming out of your mouth and the programming that’s coming from the linguistics that you’re using. And, you know, on the other side of that, it’s also when you’re gossiping and you’re talking about somebody else and you’re making giant assumptions about them, you just get to stop and be like, You know what? I actually don’t really know that at all. I’m just making an assumption about them. So I’m just going to cut and stop and not say anymore because that’s that may or may not be true.
Lunden Souza: [00:35:40] Yeah. And I feel like it. Yeah. You’re just correcting your mistakes or mishaps or hiccups or whatever. And it’s kind of like an unofficial model, like permission slip for other people to do that too. It’s like, okay, mid-sentence I can just stop and decide. That’s not congruent with what I want to be talking about. That’s not cool for me. Yeah, you can do that too. We can all do that and support each other in that. Okay, so let’s go into this activity or NLP technique, let’s call it. It always feels like fun play and stuff for me too, because I get excited to do this work and figure out what more we can learn from our experiences and other people’s experiences too. So I want to go through this with you, Aubrey the perceptual positioning where all and I don’t know, we haven’t really decided this yet. Should I share the details of what the situation is or do you feel like it would be better if we just talk about it afterwards or not at all? What do you think?
Aubrie Pohl: [00:36:36] You know, I’ll let you know that this is an NLP technique that we we learn and we go into during our seminars and people that are coaches, healers that have clients. This is a very easy technique for them to guide others through. So it is not content isn’t necessary. However, if you’re in a conversation with somebody and they’re like, Yeah, I’ve been arguing with my mom lately about this kind of stuff, you know, you can say that kind of content. It’s not not needed. So that’s why it’s a content free technique. But for example. And it’d be cool if you want to give an example because this perceptual position is really helpful when there’s some kind of discrepancy, disagreement, or maybe things are just being seen from different models of the world with another person involved. It can also be useful when you just want to gain more wisdom, compassion and empathy on a situation that you’re going through. So yeah, you can go ahead and share a certain experience so people can relate it to like what this could be about.
Lunden Souza: [00:37:39] Yeah, cool. I’ll definitely share that. And I think that’s cool. What you said is like it doesn’t you don’t need the context or the content of it. And I’ve done it both ways with clients where they don’t share anything and they just kind of share their responses or they want to share a lot. And I’ve also done it in groups where, yeah, it’s not necessary to have everybody tell me all the details of everything they want to gain more perspective on. And so tools like that I think are cool and fun because you can feel safe and empowered in whichever capacity you choose to share. So my situation and this is actually I was thinking, I told Aubry I want to do this and I want to choose a scenario specific situation that I do want more clarity and empathy on that I haven’t done before. So sometimes I’ll do a situation multiple times. I think it’s helpful to like gain even more wisdom, especially if something’s continuing to kind of bug you a little bit. But this one, I have it before. So this is a family one. And this is always something that, like I said, it’s like you find you think you found your own mentor, this like Zen master or whatever, and then family stuff can be really challenging.
Lunden Souza: [00:38:43] And so this particular situation was actually a years ago, it was like I was still living in Austria. I think I was maybe like seven, about seven years ago because about two years into me living in Austria and my in my family, there was a very big kind of stirring of the pot, let’s say, based on my ex-boyfriend, who has a lot of tattoos. And my grandpa is a very traditional Italian immigrant. He came from Italy to America when he was ten. Cutthroat entrepreneur, like just really worked his way up from from nothing and is very yeah. Has some controlling tendencies. Let’s say it like this. His opinion is always known. And so when I was dating this guy and he met him, he liked him with long sleeves. But when he wore short sleeves, all of a sudden he could see like his tattoos on his skin. And he literally lost it. And he called my mom the next morning at like 4:00 in the morning, yelling at her and trying to get me on the phone to talk about this situation, which was not okay for him. So the particular situation is that phone conversation when I called him after kind of getting the gist of what he was upset about from my mom. And yeah, that’s the particular situation.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:40:01] Amazing. It’s a perfect situation for this kind of technique and I really like the words that you chose to use for it to. You gave a lot of space to understanding his model of the world and where he could be coming from. And so, you know, listeners can really listen to how you can shift, even how you’re describing a situation. And you didn’t you didn’t make too many identity kind of cues about him saying like, he’s rude or mean or anything like that. You’re like, Well, it could be this kind of individual. So what we’ll do is we’ll go through perceptual positions and then Lunden I’ll ask you at the end of everything, like what your take is and how things have transformed or changed. And for you listening, I want you to think of an experience involving another individual where you want even more wisdom about even more insight into maybe even compassion will help. And I want you to think of a very specific moment in time where this was happening and you were there and that other person was there a very specific moment in time, not a generalized. We argued all year. Right. You know, the room that you were in, you know, like maybe the time of day, it was a very specific moment in time.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:41:21] And now I want you to hop into your shoes. Hop into your shoes during that moment in time when there was the argument or the situation looking through your own eyes. And ask yourself, what is there to gain from your experience? How are you seeing things? What are you learning? And now, as you are now. For what purpose were you there in the past? What did you want? What did you really want? What was important to you? And allow yourself to integrate that observation that you’re making now. And then you can begin to float up out of your body. And into the other person’s experience. Hop into their shoes and try on their model of the world. Remember, you’re not thinking as yourself now. Think as if you are them. What does this person want from that interaction? How do they want to be seen? What are they trying to say? And what’s important to them. What do they really want? And what can you learn and gain from trying on their shoes right now? What can you see right now that you didn’t see before? Yeah, that’s right. And integrating that new wisdom and understanding of the situation. And then allow yourself to float out of that position. And go into the fly on the wall. Right.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:43:41] Or if it’s a clean house, go into the picture frame. And from a very non biased, non emotional perception. See these two individuals communicating. See what is being communicated. And also see what is not being communicated. What’s really happening between these two people. And what is missing that neither one of them knows. What can you learn now from this perception? From the picture frame or the fly on the wall that you didn’t know before? And allow yourself to see this perception and integrate the learnings that’s available from their. Yeah. And then seeing now what is more available to you because. You’ve taken this opportunity to see things from these different perspectives. What’s different now? And you can ask yourself, well, what’s next? Is there a step that you need to take because of this new awareness? Or do you just want to keep this new awareness within? And feel the transformation that’s available because of it. In taking a deep inhale and a full exhale, acknowledging yourself and giving yourself gratitude for at least trying on these different perceptions and respecting other people’s model of the world. And just. Trying on something else to gain more insight about it. And when you’re ready, can come back into your body where you are right now. And open your eyes. Welcome back.
Lunden Souza: [00:45:59] Awesome. Thank you.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:46:00] Yes. So, Lunden, what? What was your experience like? What’s different now?
Lunden Souza: [00:46:09] I’d say what’s different now is I no longer desire to to be right. I think that in that situation it was very much like, I don’t know, lawyer bringing the evidence to trial. It was like a very clear sweep for me. I’m like, this is not OC. And I wanted, I don’t know, some sort of apology or like a your right. So the need for that is, is not important at all, which feels really good. And also, you know, I have been working on this for some time. Like I said, it’s been years that this has actually happened. But but yeah, I’m I’m learning just to be more empathetic and understanding and learn more about my grandpa’s childhood and his past and the details that he’ll share with me or that I know just from knowing or like, you know, just things that you know about your your family and just trying to really understand like OC, you know, this is where he’s coming from. I might think he’s X, Y or Z adjectives, but let me try to understand his model of the world even more. And so in, in, in further getting further understanding from that, it was kind of like his way of, you know, loving and protecting me. It was like, oh, my gosh, I see this person he know in his brain, he has tattoos.
Lunden Souza: [00:47:30] That means X, Y or Z like danger. Danger, we say red flag. Now, like for him, it was like all the red flags, you know, and he didn’t have any better communication skills than to call and start yelling and screaming and stirring all the pots and going crazy and stuff like that. So I just feel, yeah, more aware to and more connected to to him because it’s like, yeah, it sucks to be scared or fear or like if I was trying to protect like my niece or someone in my family, that would be an overwhelming, like feeling. I’d want to protect them, you know? So that’s different. And then also like when you said to go on the fly of the wall perspective, just to give you guys kind of a visual, what I was seeing because we weren’t in the same room, but it was almost like if you had like a Hollywood set built and then there was no roof and I was like above it. So there was like a split screen and it was like his scenario. And in his body I was like in his house pacing up and back and forth the hallway, like, I know he probably was, and then me in that spot.
Lunden Souza: [00:48:24] So then when I was the fly on the wall floating kind of above that situation, at one point we had our hands like inner, like interlocked, just like grass, like you’re holding hands. But like he was in front of me and we were going like back and forth, back and forth of, like, tug of war almost with our arms. And a little bit before you ended that exercise, it was like, no, we just met in the middle and we just shook hands. It was like, we don’t need to pull each other in any direction. It’s just like, let’s shake hands where we are and somewhat agree to disagree or just continue, you know, moving forward. Because for a while it was really like no boundaries. I’m never talking to him again. It’s not okay. Like not going to any family activities. I am not you know, I was very like, yeah, just angry and going through a lot of emotions and I can say too, rightfully so. But now with this with this exercise that we did, I have a lot of powerful visuals, too, of what I saw and how I felt that will make you mentally preparing to be around him the next time and a lot of the rehearsal and practice that goes into that even better.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:49:26] Wow. Thank you for sharing your experience and thank you. And for the listeners like noticed all the metaphors in the visuals and the movies that were playing in Lunden’s mind. Right? The shaking of the hands at the end. Well, how powerful is that from the kind of back and forth tug of war until the metaphorical representation of agreement that her mind created as the movie of it, you know, that’s the neuro linguistic programming. That’s the picture that she now has in her mind, rather than the arguing and everything that could have been there prior. And this is important. You see how the difference of how Lunden might have responded in the past and now how she gets to respond moving forward, because she really considered his model of the world. And it was actually about protecting you rather than, you know, finding some argument. And so you can see of everything that’s available through techniques like this when you really gain a different perspective. So let me ask you one more question. So how does that change things moving forward? And so what does this realization do for you moving forward?
Lunden Souza: [00:50:34] Yeah, moving forward. It’s just yeah, like I said, a helpful tool as I prepare to be around the family and in situations that I can find myself triggered and moving forward, though, I still feel called to the boundaries that I’ve set and respecting those. So it’s not just like, okay, everything’s fine and let’s just like go back to the way they were or whatever. I’m cool with them not being that way. I like my boundaries, I respect those. And then also I know there are a lot of really amazing, great qualities about my grandpa. Like such a. Hard worker came from Italy on a ship on the bottom floor. To get to America was on there for two weeks. You know, entrepreneur, so many successful businesses. So now moving forward, it’s just my goal. Yeah. Or my my yeah. My goal to absorb as much of that goodness as I can because he won’t be here forever. And like, neither will I either. But just to be like, okay, what are the skills that Grandpa has that I really love and respect and admire and like things I want to keep with me? And then of course, just like with anything myself too, it’s like there’s other parts you can just kind of discard and let them be over there. But I want to really be on the lookout for cool things about Grandpa that I can take with me and like share to my niece or other family members. I have a lot of cousins who have children that are really small too, that it’s like, I want to be able to embody some of that goodness and that entrepreneurial spirit and that love for family and that desire for growth and the desire to protect and help and just, yeah, embrace more of those good qualities. Highlight those more. Bring the land. Turn out to that more.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:52:17] Love it, love it. And that points to that. There doesn’t necessarily need to be a resolution. You know, he’s not going to call you up and be like, you know, honey, I realize that tattoos are actually fine. You know, you don’t you’re not asking him to do that. And you’re also not going to decrease your boundaries that you’ve created and feel comfortable for. So, again, this technique, it doesn’t need this like complete epiphany of complete agreement. It’s just that there’s now more awareness and you can pick and choose what’s empowering to you, and you can release the negative emotions that were part of the experience, and you can move forward with even more empowerment in who you are and more of that neutral feeling about a previously negative situation, which is fantastic.
Lunden Souza: [00:53:07] Yeah. And before I would have been seeking that, that call, that apology, that formal, I am wrong, you know, but it’s cool even if I never get that because it’s not something I need from someone else in order to feel some type of way. But we can find ourselves in those loops of like, I just need them to do this and this, and then I’ll be and they should do this and then I’ll be. And that just didn’t get me anywhere. But I definitely was stuck there for a couple of years. So it’s not like overnight work, that’s for sure. But Aubrey, thank you so much for the gift that you are and for doing this and for literally putting me through an NLP session right here on the podcast. I’ve shared information and details about family situations before, but never in this much detail and in like this type of capacity. And I was kind of over the last month, I talked to my boyfriend about it too, and I’m like, I want to share this, but I don’t really know how and like how to give details about family situations while still being respectful and honest and helping people providing value. And so he shared some insights with me. And then it was also kind of the consensus like you’ll just know when you’re ready and whatever. And Aubrey and I, we didn’t plan that this topic was going to be this of what I wanted to share. But I say that because thank you for always making me feel safe and comfortable and yeah, more empowered with with NLP as a as your student and also as your friend. So thank you so much for that.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:54:32] Yeah. And thank you for being transparent and sharing and showing that vulnerability makes us all more relatable because what is personal is also universal. And we think sometimes we’re experiencing this personal, pervasive, permanent problem. And lo and behold, many other people relate to a very similar circumstance, not never the same one, because everyone is unique in their own model of the world. But we all experience situations like this, and hearing someone else go through it really helps us release those feelings that we’re alone because we’re not alone. And for you to give yourself permission to share it and for you to trust your unconscious mind. That’s something that we talk about in NLP a lot because what is coming up for you in the moment is your unconscious mind, your subconscious mind saying this is what we could work on, this is what we can move forward with. And listening to your intuition is absolutely beautiful as well. So thank you.
Lunden Souza: [00:55:33] Thank you. Thank you. And where can people get connected with you to take your NLP course either online or in person? Social media all that. Tell us where we can get more aubrie.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:55:44] Awesome. So my NLP academy is called the Life through Leadership NLP Academy and you can go to life through Leadership NLP. I’m also on Instagram primarily at its Aubree. It’s a YouTube ah IEEE. And yeah, I would love to connect and really take in what everyone has to say and what you got from this kind of conversation. You know, Lunden and I, we’re here to help you. And I want everyone that’s listening to know that you are supported, you’re loved, and there’s always going to be someone there to listen, even if you go home. It’s not necessarily the family members. This is why we create communities like this. And Lunden has an amazing community that she’s created throughout the years of her programs and her coaching, and I’m just super appreciative that you can bring this kind of platform and I can be a part of it today.
Lunden Souza: [00:56:39] So, yeah, so happy to have you be a part of it for now. And also more episodes to come because there’s a lot that we cover. And plus, I just love talking to you and hanging out with you and everything like that. So I’ll put all the links on how you can connect with Aubrey. Jump in on one of her NLP trainings. They’re super amazing. I can say from firsthand experience, twice in person, super great. I take we do like follow up community calls on zoom so in person and online. Aubrey is so great and so helpful. So thank you so much for being here and talk to you later.
Aubrie Pohl: [00:57:13] Awesome. Thank you.
Lunden Souza: [00:57:14] Thank you so much for listening to this app. Episode of Self, Love and Sweat, the podcast. Hey, do me a favor. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, give us a review. This really helps a lot and share this with a friend. I’m only one person, and with your help, we can really spread the message of self love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I’m Lunden Souza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose fueled by self, love and sweat. This podcast is a hit spot. Austria production.
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