In this episode, Lunden talks with Zach Tucker and Jeremy Grater. The founders and hosts of The Fit Mess Podcast. For nearly a decade, they have pushed themselves to learn more about their own physical, emotional, and mental health. This has created a passion for using their acquired knowledge to help others.
Zach & Jeremy are both incredibly funny and charismatic and their friendship is really inspiring. I know you’re going to enjoy and learn so much from these guys in Episode #108 of Self Love & Sweat THE PODCAST.
WATCH VIDEO EP 108: How To Be Vulnerable As A Man, Motivation & Rewriting Your Story
How do you stay motivated to work towards your goals?
Both Zach & Jeremy would agree that having each other for accountability and truth has been so helpful on both of their journeys. They met, thankfully, because their wives suggested they hangout and the rest is history. “We were we were both trying to take care of ourselves mentally and physically and talking to each other, having these vulnerable conversations, was really helpful,” Zach says.
Being vulnerable as a man & embracing BOTH your feminine & masculine qualities
“It’s okay to cry, it’s okay to have some more feminine qualities. They don’t have to replace your masculine qualities. They are in addition to they make you a more complete and full human being,” Jeremy explains. The more nurturing, helpful, warm and restorative parts of your personality don’t have to be neglected. “I think it starts with what we’re told as young men, especially 3-5 years old. Toughen up. What’s your problem? Why are you crying? Stop crying! I’m not trying to discount the female experience completely, but my experience as a young man was if you show emotion, you’re causing a problem, knock it off. So I think many, many boys are raised that way.”
How to rewrite your story, remove the labels and become who you were meant to be
The first step is to have awareness of the stories you tell yourself and to remember that they are not your own. They can be passed down from a parent or other caregiver in your life when you were really young. What happens is we simply accept these stories as true until we have the awareness that we can question it. Zach shares the experience he had after being praised at work and catching a glimpse of his physique in the mirror,…
“And I started crying in my kitchen going, Oh my God, I’m not fat, I’m not stupid. I do look good! And it was it was so beautiful to have that 3 seconds of just pure joy that all [those old stories were] not true and it was garbage.”
Timestamps to help you navigate this episode:
(4:41) Having vulnerable conversations
(7:06) Getting over the fear of podcasting
(10:33) Our stories are not our own
(16:30) Breaking the chains of neglect
(25:29) Sponsor: Snap Supplements 25% OFF using code LUNDEN25
(27:56) Finding Balance
(35:15) Looking at the evidence
(39:23) What do you want in life?
(46:51) Imagining the person you want to become
Connect with The FitMess Guys:
The Fit Mess Podcast: https://www.thefitmess.com/
FULL EPISODE 108 TRANSCRIPT:
Lunden Souza: [00:00:00] Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you’ll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections, break down barriers, and do what sets your soul on fire. I’m your host Lunden Souza.
Lunden Souza: [00:00:20] Hey, have you grabbed your free self love and sweat monthly calendar yet? This calendar is so amazing. It comes right in your inbox every single month to help you have a little nugget of wisdom, a sweaty workout, a mindset activity, just a little something. Something to help keep you focused and motivated and keep that momentum towards your goals. So every day when you get this calendar, you’ll see a link that you can click that will lead to a podcast episode or a workout or something that will be very powerful and quick to read. And then you’ll also see on the top left corner of every single day there’s a little checkbox in the calendar. And what that is, is that’s for your one thing. You can choose one thing every month, or it can be the same something that you want to implement and make this something that you can easily implement, like daily meditation or getting a certain amount of steps or water, for example, and staying hydrated and even taking your supplements. This can be something, if you want to get more regular, doing a particular habit and routine, you can choose what that checkbox means. So if you want your self love and sweat free monthly calendar delivered right to your inbox every month on the first of the month, go to lifelikelunden.com/calendar. Fill out the form really quickly and you will have your calendar and your inbox within a few short minutes. That’s lifelikelunden.com/calendar Go get yours for free and enjoy this episode. Today’s guests on the podcast are Zach Tucker and Jeremy Grater. They are the founders and hosts of the Fit Mess. For nearly a decade, they have pushed themselves to learn more about their own physical, emotional and mental health. This has created a passion for using their acquired knowledge to help others. As hosts of the show. For several years, they have had the opportunity to speak to a wide range of guests, including some of the biggest names in health and wellness. Welcome to the show, Jeremy and Zach. This is the first time I’ve actually had well, maybe not the first time, but in this setup. Yeah, two guests together in this conversation. So this is super cool. I’m so happy to have you guys on the podcast today. How’s it going?
Jeremy Grater: [00:02:46] Really good. Thank you so much for the opportunity. We’re really excited to do this. Ever since you were on our show, we’ve been really looking forward to having this conversation as well.
Lunden Souza: [00:02:55] Yeah, definitely. Same. So, Guy, we have Jeremy and Zach here. So wait, Jeremy, you talk a little. Jeremy was the first one to talk. Say hi, Jeremy. So we can distinguish with the with the voice.
Jeremy Grater: [00:03:07] That’s me. I’m Jeremy. Hello, everyone.
Zach Tucker: [00:03:10] And I’m Zach.
Lunden Souza: [00:03:11] Done, Done. Yeah. Cool. Because I know that people watching the video, you’ll obviously be able to distinguish between all of us, but sometimes when we’re talking, it’s hard to hear the difference. So here we are with Jeremy and Zach. I’m super excited. Sorry. Go ahead. I think there might be a little bit of a lag, but I hear you.
Jeremy Grater: [00:03:28] I was. That’s okay. I was just going to make a really bad joke that Zach’s the handsome one.
Zach Tucker: [00:03:36] Clearly his video is buffering and he’s not getting a good view.
Lunden Souza: [00:03:39] So you guys can vote. Watch the video. Ivo, Everybody, Ivo, everybody. I’m team. I’m team team mess guys for sure, right? I know I loved being on your guys podcast. It was really awesome. I didn’t really know what to expect. You know, I don’t. I don’t know how you guys are. We always kind of provide questions or we have like an idea of the topic or the kind of the intention, if you will. But I just remember being on your podcast and just feeling, yeah, so good and so refreshed and so like we talked about a lot about things you guys shared a lot of, about what you, what you guys have been going through. We talked about vulnerability, we talked about mindset and different things. And I just feel like, yeah, I felt right at home on that space. That is the fit mess, if you will. Or sometimes I call it like a masterpiece, My life. And so I yeah, you good on you and how did you guys get to meet each other to do this show and to decide, hey, we’re going to talk about things that, like most guys aren’t talking about.
Zach Tucker: [00:04:41] Yeah, we met Jes probably 11 years ago or so. And actually it was because of our wives that we met. Our wives were doing a fit mom kind of club after they had had babies. And we’ve got daughters that are pretty much the same age. And our wives were like, Hey, you guys should get together and talk. So we showed up at some breakfast or brunch one day and, you know, the wives introduced us and, you know, we did the typical guy thing, sized each other up like see a threat. And and, you know, we both love Star Wars. And so we had a whole bunch of common. But, you know, it took a little while but a couple more gatherings and we started to chat and became friends and I don’t know a couple of maybe a couple of years went by and we really started to open up and talk about things that we were struggling with on a pretty regular basis and. You know, we were we were both trying to take care of ourselves mentally and physically and talking to each other, having these vulnerable conversations. And I’ll let Jeremy pick it up here because I came to him one day and said, Hey, we should really, like have these conversations in a public forum, like a podcast because you’ve got that history of podcasting. And he flat out said No.
Jeremy Grater: [00:05:58] Pretty much, Yeah, that’s pretty much right. Yeah. So, yeah, he’s right. I’d been in commercial radio and podcasting for many, many years at that point. And, you know, I was really hesitant to have those conversations in public. It was it was really after a couple of really vulnerable conversations we had, we went camping and he was he’s just was clearly ahead of me on this wellness journey, was taking better care of himself, having a lot of success. Everything I’d been throwing against the wall was not sticking. Some things were. But ultimately, he sort of turned me on to some different diet techniques that I could try. And those were really working. And I started getting in more physical activity that he was suggesting. I was like, Oh, he kind of knows a thing or two. And so we did we just the the walls that are up between guys really started to come down and we were able I was able to say, This sucks, this is really hard. How did you do this? What did you do to get through this part? Like mentally this this is weighing me down. And he was just such a great resource. There were times we were at birthday parties and I was emotionally overwhelmed and had to leave and went and sat in my car. And he was the one that came out and said, Are you okay? What’s going on? And so there was just was this bond that was formed through that vulnerability, through opening up to each other.
Jeremy Grater: [00:07:06] And so that was rare on its own. So when Zach came to me and said, yeah, this this should be a podcast, you know, guys don’t talk like this. And I think if other guys heard this, it could help open the doors for them as well. I said, You’re completely out of your mind because I’m not a health expert. I don’t have anything on my wall that says I have the right to tell anybody. Here’s what you need to do to live a better life, blah, blah, blah. But I was intrigued because I love podcasting. So I started exploring the genre more and I saw that more and more people were really just a couple of steps ahead of their audience, and we’re bringing on experts to fill in the gaps where they maybe didn’t have the formal education on the topics. And so I saw an opening for us and said, Yeah, if we do sort of follow that path of sharing our pain, sharing our struggle and what’s working for us, maybe we can save people a few steps. Maybe we can save them a few years by sharing what we did to get where we are. And let’s bring in those experts to close in, to close the gaps for us. And so with that, I finally caved and said, Fine, let’s let’s do your silly podcast idea. And here we are.
Lunden Souza: [00:08:09] Yes, I love that. And I yeah, sometimes we think we need to have like all the skills, all the certifications, all the fluff in place before we’re like qualified to talk or share. But really, like what we’re all a master in is our own experience and what we feel daily and are going through. And like you said, yeah, you might not be a master of certain fitness topics, but you’re a master of knowing what it feels like to be overwhelmed and sit in your car and have someone come up to you and help you feel heard and seen. And so why do you think? And do you think it’s getting better? But why do you think it’s so sticky off limits for men to have these deep, vulnerable relationships? And have you seen, I don’t know, an improvement in that? Do you feel like as a man and as men who are in relationship, as friends and close people in your lives, do you feel like you’re seeing more of that now, or where do you think we have a long way to go?
Jeremy Grater: [00:09:10] Well, to answer the first part of the question first, I think it starts with what we’re told as young men, especially three, four or five years old. Toughen up. What’s your problem? Why are you stop crying. You know, don’t don’t make me turn this car around. Whatever. Whatever the thing is, like any outward expression of emotion as a young boy. And probably for girls, too. I’m not trying to discount that experience completely, but my experience as a young man was if you show emotion, you’re causing a problem, knock it off. So I think many, many boys are raised that way. Don’t show it tough enough. Get on the field. Get on the field. I don’t care if it hurts. Rub some dirt on it. Get out there and make the play. That’s sort of the experience, I think. And I do see an evolution. I mean, just maybe because we’re so deep in it. But I mean, we’re having conversations constantly with other men on their podcasts that are that have the same vision of it’s okay to cry, it’s okay to have some more feminine qualities. They don’t have to replace your masculine qualities. They are in addition to they make you a more complete and full human being. So. You know, perhaps I’m too immersed in the genre because of what we do every day. But I do think the fact that we are having those conversations when, you know, three years ago when we started this, we went, hey, we’re kind of an anomaly. We should try this. I think that I think that’s a glimmer of hope that things are changing.
Lunden Souza: [00:10:33] Cool. Cool. Yeah. I remember when I posted on my stories a few weeks back when I was getting ready for episode 100. I was like, What have you learned since podcasting? And I don’t know which one of you actually typed the response, but it was from your fit mess account and it was like, I we’ve learned that our stories are not our own. They are ones that we maybe didn’t even this is me paraphrasing, but it was like they’re not our own and sometimes we don’t even take time. This is a lot of words to say what you said, but don’t take the time to recognize like, Hey, they’re not our own and we can rewrite them. It was like something like that that you put as you’re learning. And I was like, Yes, because that pertains so much to podcasting, right? And our limiting beliefs and not good enough and can we do it? But then also the other stories like we might think men are not supposed to show emotion or have the tough conversations or cry or be overwhelmed or have some of these softer, more feminine components.
Lunden Souza: [00:11:26] And so I loved when you shared that as one of your learnings, because I think that’s something I don’t know what you guys feel, but I think with podcasting and coaching, I think that that’s the critical component for us to keep coming in contact with these stories. We’re like, Hey, I don’t know if I believe that I want to change it and I want to share about how I changed it and talk to about other people, about how they changed it. You know, I just I love that change process. I love the idea of that evolution and continuing to evolve and be different. And sometimes I think to just change in general, people can be very like, you know, change what you know. So it’s like one thing to accept that, hey, our stories are not our own, and then also have the courage to to change that narrative through doing a podcast or having tough conversations and all of those things. So I just wanted to say I really appreciated that learning that you shared on the stories. I can. I really feel that.
Jeremy Grater: [00:12:20] Yeah. And that was that was something there was a really tangible moment for me. Just a few weeks ago. I was at a family meal and it really highlighted this for me in a way that I’d never really had clarity on it, no matter how much I’d been sharing that the stories are not your own and all that. This really tangible moment happened. I was at a family dinner. My family from all over the country was there. My mom made dinner for everybody, made lasagna for a for vegans, for lactose intolerance. There were literally four different lasagnas. And I don’t know if you’ve ever made a lasagna, but it’s no easy task she made for to satisfy everyone’s dietary needs. And as everyone’s dishing up, she’s setting out all the disclaimers. Oh, I had to use this. I hope this is okay, because I don’t know if you’re going to like this, because just because and I just I kind of heard it and let it go. But then she kept doing it as people kept going back for thirds and fourths of it. And she kept like setting up all the reasons why it was going to not meet your expectations, whatever it was. And I just went, Oh my God, that’s the voice in my head.
Jeremy Grater: [00:13:21] That’s that’s where I got that, is I heard my mom doing that. And so there’s all these times when I go into meetings, expectations with this story of, Oh, here’s why I’m late. Oh, sorry, my Internet connections, like I’m preparing for whatever I can do to lower the bar so that just by showing up, I win, Right? And it’s crazy. And I sort of laughed at my mom and I was like, Mom, it’s okay. You can. Everyone loves it. Why? Why do you keep dismissing it? It’s incredible. Like it’s almost gone. You don’t have to keep setting the expectation low. But that was such a moment of clarity where I was like, I can’t believe how many stories, not even of, Hey, you don’t feel that way, Hey, you don’t feel emotion. But it was people my mom and my dad and others around me that would say things about themselves out loud. And because I value them and their role in my life so much, that meant that that must be true for me too. And only now, at 45, am I realizing, Oh my God, that’s not even my voice in my head. That’s insane.
Lunden Souza: [00:14:21] Oh, my gosh, I love that story. So real, so true. And I think everybody listening can identify with a moment where whether, yeah, it was a parent, a caregiver, a relative, whatever, where you’re like, oh my gosh, that’s the source, or at least part of the source that I can see now. And sometimes you trace things back, right? And you’re like, Oh, and I, I heard this kind of term. I forget who. So when I follow on social media, Instagram master Marston Kip, he posted something about being like a transitional character in your family, like being the one that has that moment where you’re like, Oh, I figured out where it came from and it stops with me. Did you have that feeling? Do you have that feeling for your children where you’re like, Okay, I’m going to go out of my way to make sure that I’m checking myself too, as they’re checking me like, How do you do that? I’m not a parent. So like, how do you do that?
Jeremy Grater: [00:15:13] Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think I was trying to do that anyways with a lot of changes that I’ve made. I mean, there’s there was alcoholism in my family. There was just a lot of dad issues going way, way back. And so I went into parenthood going, I’m going to break that chain. And, you know, and a big part of my journey to better health and taking care of myself was sobriety. I mean, and I wasn’t like an alcoholic, but when I did stop drinking, I realized how much I used it to manage my emotions and to cope. So I’ve automatically broken that chain that goes back generations. And so my kids don’t see me drinking alcohol. They don’t have to worry about Dad coming home drunk. They don’t have to worry about our mom and dad going to fight tonight because dad’s at the bar too late. Like that’s erased from from our line. So there’s little things like that. But yeah, this moment that I just described is one that has me measuring my words a little more and has me measuring how to how do I show up? Am I complaining about myself in any way? You know, when people come over and they start talking about, oh, yeah, I need to lose weight, I’m fat. Like whatever I try to like either politely divert the conversation to something else, but because I just I just don’t want them hearing those same messages and having those plant seeds in their head, that that’s, that that applies to them too.
Zach Tucker: [00:16:30] Yeah. And there was a similar, similar situation in my life where I had to break the chain with my daughter because, I mean, I didn’t have to go very far. You know, the bar was really low with my parents, you know, just tons and tons of neglect and like involvement when I was five being taken away from my mom because she was out partying for days on end. So with my daughter, like, it really didn’t take much. But, you know, it’s we just showed up and we’re parents for her. But I had a similar moment, like in my kitchen a couple of months ago, and I’ve told Jeremy about this and we talked about it on on the show once. But my entire life, like I was called Fat, Stupid, Ugly by my parents, by my family, by everyone who was supposed to love me. So I took those in as truth and believed them my whole life. And somehow I managed to get to a point in my life where I’m doing really well. I’m very healthy, I’m happy, all of these things. I was sitting in my kitchen and I got this message from my boss who basically said, you know, great job, you did awesome. And I caught a picture like a reflection of myself in the stove and saw my body, which, you know, like it’s fairly trim, saw my body, and my boss was like, Hey, great job. And I just had this moment where all of those truths that I believed my entire life, like crashed. And I started crying in my kitchen going, Oh my God, I’m not fat, I’m not stupid. I am like, I do look good like this moment. And it was it was so beautiful. Like having that that. You know, 3 seconds of just pure joy that all that stuff was not true and it was garbage.
Lunden Souza: [00:18:23] Yes. I love. Thank you for sharing. So powerful, so powerful to have those moments where you’re just like, wait, all this that I’ve been thinking, I’m aware of it and I’m calling bullshit on it and it’s not true. It’s not even my voice. And then to have that, like, overwhelm of just like, compassion for ourselves and love and that shedding of, you know, like you said, you just crying in that moment of like, wait, you know, it’s almost like I feel like a death of former self of what you used to believe in those old thoughts and patterns and like a rebirth of who you’re choosing to be and like what you’re choosing to make this situation mean. And yeah, I do a lot of story rewrites with my clients and it seems like you’ve done that in a nutshell or somehow. Zach to turn. Your story to actually make it really matter and mean something based on like why you’re here on this earth. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like. I guess the way I would ask it is sometimes we write these stories and it’s like. But wait, I couldn’t have had it any other way because that’s how I am me now, and I love that. Have you gotten there yet? Do you feel like that’s what you’re continuing to work on and.
Zach Tucker: [00:19:39] Yeah, absolutely. So Jeremy and I were actually talking about this recently. So the way I was raised, the way I grew up, like I was as soon as I turned 18, I ended up in jail. Like. My whole family figured that I was going to be dead or in jail for the rest of my life. That’s just where I was. I was £300, smoked cigarettes, like, did all this stuff. And something happened where I just turned the corner and I started to I realized that, like, who I was yesterday is not who I have to be tomorrow. And things just started to change and change and change. And, you know, talking to Jeremy the other day. I you know, in telling my story here and there of how I was raised and how I grew up and how I changed it, it made me realize how not normal it was and how far I’ve actually come because I’m a relatively normal person. I have my quirks, but where I was 20 years ago is like 180 degree turn and. But I would never be where I am today without those first 20 years. Like it taught me a level of resiliency that I don’t know. I would have gotten any other way. It taught me what it’s like to be on the other side. So like giving my daughter a good life, right? I have a perfect example of what a bad life is, so I strive to make sure she doesn’t have to go through that or I don’t have to go through that. You know, watching my parents get old and get sick and pass away with regrets all over the place, like I don’t want that. So yeah, the first 20 years of my life sucked. But it’s made the next 20 years of my life so much better.
Lunden Souza: [00:21:26] Hmm. And that’s a choice. And I love that word resilience. I talk about that. A lot for me. For a while, resilience was like the bounce back into a workout. Like, especially like after injury or like kind of like muscular resilience and things like that. But the more I yeah, meditate on that word, think about that word and kind of what that means. There’s a lot of fire that we get to move through in our lives or some might say have to. But I like try to say like that we get to move through in our lives and I just think, yeah, we can we can move through that. And it’s hard and it’s scary and it burns and all of that. But I think that’s the way that we build resilience. And I think sometimes we can hide from our situations, even like on social media, it’s like we could block people, we can, you know, if we don’t want to deal with that, we don’t need to hear their viewpoint. We don’t need to talk to that person. We could just block in to be like. And so I find that, like somehow I’m noticing a little bit of like a lack of resilience, like a lack of that get up and going back into the arena despite the challenge, because there’s a bigger mission that is your life, that is your impact and all of those things. And so, yeah, what does resilience mean to you guys or do you guys think about that word a lot? I just kind of do that resilience and conscientious. Those are two words. I just kind of I don’t know. They’ve been coming to me a lot. And then you said resilience, and I was like, Oh yeah, of course we’re thinking about the same thing here.
Jeremy Grater: [00:23:00] It’s funny you mention that, because that word, you know, I was escaping into my phone like anyone the other day and some TikTok video came up and it’s a guy on the top of the mountain doing pushups. And, you know, it’s kind of your standard, you know, self help video or whatever. But it was this guy basically in text sharing resilience. You know, like I get up at four in the morning and I do the work. I’ve done everything I need to do by 9:00 AM and you’re just getting out of bed and getting started. And there was something about it that struck me and it made me realize how much I need to lean into that word and everything that goes with it. And it reminds me we did an episode with a guy named Chris Duffin. I don’t remember a year ago, champion weightlifter, like just incredible human being. And he told he made this great analogy about trees, right? The strongest trees with the deepest roots are the ones that have withstood the the winds and the ones that don’t have the deep roots and haven’t done the training against those. Those winds are the ones that get knocked over and I just I just love that, especially like I look out my window. I’m surrounded by trees and mountains and there’s a windstorm going just that’s where I’m at in my life right now. And that’s what’s going on literally outside my window. And I just keep trying to remind myself, just be like those trees that have been there for 1000 years.
Jeremy Grater: [00:24:13] Just do the work, like plant the deep roots and withstand the struggle, withstand those heavy winds, because on the other side is so much strength. And even being here a year and a half ago, like I said, I, I envisioned living in this place. I moved my family from another country literally to this spot. I built the life that I envisioned one morning. And it was hard and it was struggle and it was pain. But it all led to this moment, similar to what Zach had just the other day. I was with my kids at an after school event and like, I just started this new job and like, like every piece of this massive puzzle that I spent the last year and a half putting together, I put the last piece into place and it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I’m like, at this event with kids and their parents, I’m trying to not just ball because I’m realizing I rebuilt my life from the ground up and like 15 months and I have literally everything I wanted, everything. Like there’s not a box left to check. And so so now I’m going like, okay, what next? You did it. You you built it. You made it. So now what? Right. Like because you can’t get complacent because something’s going to change. The winds are going to come back. So what do I do to stay strong and not get weak and get blown over when the winds change?
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Lunden Souza: [00:26:46] That’s LUNDEN25 for 25% off at checkout. You can shop on snap supplements or you can shop on my website lifelikelunden.com/supplements and you’ll see there there’s already an additional 10% taken off. But you because you’re a podcast listener, you’re going to get 25% off when you use the code. LUNDEN25 at checkout LUNDEN25 at checkout to get your snap supplements, super greens and collagen and all your snap supplements for 25% off. Now let’s get back to the show. Yeah. Not only take action when it’s windy, it’s like in those moments of like, yeah, things are great. Boxes are being checked and I’m still going to choose to build those roots and root down because it’s not a matter of if. It’s just kind of when and it’s not as scary. It’s just like part of life, those storms and how the Yeah, just like the weather. And we have different seasons outside. We have them different seasons internally. And so sometimes I find myself, yeah, rooting down in different ways to prepare for different seasons and challenges in my life.
Lunden Souza: [00:27:56] And yeah, one of them I shared right before. Forehand. We were talking where I was just like, Yeah, I think sometimes it’s important to yeah, know, when it’s time to step back a little bit, know when it’s time to push a little bit. How have you guys? Yeah, in this journey of rebuilding who you are and all the stuff that you’re doing, how do you ever feel like that Gas break. Gas break where you’re, like, going hard and then you have to pull your kind of rein yourself back in because I know there is the yeah, the workouts and the physical stuff and the, you know, the doing. But there’s also the work ins, as I call them. So do you ever find yourself I kind of kind of hear a voice for me, it’s like, hey, like it’s time to, you know, work in a little bit and not so much doing. Do you guys call each other out on that? Do you guys help each other find that balance of like doing and go time and rest and recovery? Like, what does that look like for you?
Zach Tucker: [00:28:53] Yeah, I think we we do call each other out a little bit more. So in, in when one of us is complaining about something, the other one will will hear it and, and call BS on, on the other one. I know for but I don’t think we we actively encourage resting or like that in or work or anything like that. I know but for me personally like working out like the physical activity. Yes like I tend to go 120% and whatever I do. Jeremy has pointed this out many times to me that it’s go, go, go, go. So building in like rest days for my physical exercise is something I have to think about because I will work out seven days a week and not think about it. And it’s not good to do that like you do need. You got to give your body a chance to recover. But you’re right, like in the internal work. Is also really important. And I know for me when I set a goal and I want to hit it like I want to meditate five days a week or something along those lines. Before I get into that, before I stumble in whatever it is that I’m trying to do to be better mentally and emotionally, I need to be okay with where I am right now, and I need to accept that I’m okay. Regardless of what’s going on. Like I’m okay.
Zach Tucker: [00:30:19] Where I’m at is okay. I can have goals and I can have progress from the past, but right now I’m okay. And just having that self compassion to know that. I’m going to make mistakes. I’m going to stumble on the skull. It’s going to be difficult. And I need to be friendly with myself and I need to be compassionate with myself. And I know this thing goes through my head probably five, six dozen times a day. Something that I would say to myself, like, Oh, you’re such a loser, or I can’t believe you can’t do this. I rephrase it to Would you say this to your daughter? Would you say like those words that you’re saying to yourself, would you say it to your daughter? Or would you say it’s somebody that you love? And 99% of the time it’s no. And it just hits me like, Oh, I need to be compassionate. I need to be good to myself. Like, I’m not going to get through this by beating myself up and being painful, like. So for me, that’s kind of the recovery of the mental side is like when I do fail, be nice to myself, like don’t be a jerk, be really nice, and then you can pick yourself up and keep going. So when I heard you ask the question, that’s kind of what went through my head was self compassion.
Lunden Souza: [00:31:38] Yeah.
Jeremy Grater: [00:31:38] Be nice to touch on what you said. Sorry, I just to. To touch on the dynamic between us. It is funny because there’s. There’s a push and pull, but it’s always in the same direction as, like I said, Zach’s going 180 miles an hour, and I’ll go, Dude, maybe bring it down to, like, 107. Like, just just take it easy. But we’re on the other hand, he’s like, dummy, go to the gym. What’s your problem? Go get Yo, you got all the excuses in the world. Cool story, bro. Go do it. So that’s that’s sort of the dynamic, I think, between us that works the most. But to elaborate on on Zach’s point, I had a moment today where I, I, I feed my animals twice a day. It’s I don’t like doing it. It’s pain in the butt. I’ve got two dogs and a cat. And I feed them raw food. So there’s this whole process where I have to think like 24 hours ahead. Take that out of the freezer, let it defrost in the fridge, whatever. And for like five days in a row, I keep forgetting to take the cat food out. And so then I’ve got to put it in hot water. I’ve got to wait for it to thaw out. And it’s a big annoyance. And so my wife’s like, she’s cleaning up stuff and I’m getting the cat food out. I’m like, Oh, I’m just like, venting, right? Just like, oh, and she’s like, What’s wrong? Nothing. No, no. What is it? I just. I’m an idiot about the cat food. I’m just an idiot about the stupid cat food, right? Like, that’s what I said out loud.
Jeremy Grater: [00:32:55] And even, like, minutes later, I was like, Okay, you’re not an idiot. It’s. It’s a new habit. It hasn’t sunk in yet. No big deal. Let it go. And I let it go. But I realized that for me, so much of it is just impatience. Like, if I had just taken a minute to actually answer the question I was being asked by my lovely wife about the struggle I was having in the moment, if I had just acknowledged I have plenty of time to say out loud all the things that I need to say out loud, which is I’m really frustrated because I keep making the same mistake every day. And I would really like to stop making this mistake because it’s really annoying and it takes a lot of time and effort. Instead, I just blew up with this like I’m an idiot, because that was. I just wanted to feel that rage and get that out and get on with my day. And so it’s just it was another reminder to me that, like so many of the problems that I have in my life are just that I need to acknowledge that there’s no there’s no race here. Nobody’s running the clock. Like there’s plenty of time to feel all the feelings and do all the things. It’s okay. But but I get in my own way a lot because I just. I want to just get on to the next thing because I’m in such a hurry to get to some imaginary destination on time.
Lunden Souza: [00:34:01] You just got to be there. You’re already late. Sometimes people feel that way too. It’s like I’m leaving at 8:00 to get there at 8:00, you know? And it’s like, I love how you what you said. Or you were like, Yeah, I’m stupid. I’m an idiot. But then really, when you broke it all down, it was just like you were able to communicate how you were feeling and what was causing those feelings or different things like that. Like just stating what is versus labeling you because of X, Y or Z. And I think we can really know. I hear that all the time. I’m lazy, I’m not consistent. I’m a procrastinator. Yeah, I’m a loser. I’m an idiot. Sometimes, you know, even in my own personal healing journey, I’ve done journal activities where I’m like, okay, Lunden, let’s be real. What are you really saying to you? And I’ll write that down and you’re like, Ooh, man, Really? Self Yeah, that’s you. Oc You know, you’re like kind of this duality going back and forth. And I know that these, you know, these stories of unworthiness or whatever we might be telling ourselves, So how do we overthrow these unworthiness stories and these like, not good enough? You know, I’m, you know, I’m an idiot, I’m stupid, not good enough. All these stories, how can we rewrite that script? So then we stop playing small and actually, like, step into how we’re really feeling and how we can really communicate and how we can really level up.
Jeremy Grater: [00:35:15] I think it’s it’s looking at the evidence. I mean, like you said, even just writing it down, whatever it is, whatever story you’re telling yourself in the moment, whatever that rage, whatever that impatience is saying, you’ve got to compare it to the evidence. You’ve got to take it to the courtroom and ask the jury, is this true? Are you really are you an idiot? Are you are you really a stupid, lazy idiot? Is that really what’s going on? And when you start to look at the evidence, you find the real answer. You find out what the real verdict is in that case, because most of the time you were in a hurry. You made some mistakes. You were you did some act that any other human being would probably do. And it just hit you at the wrong time or whatever it is. There’s so many stories we tell ourselves and it comes out in that way. And we just have to we have to look for whether or not it’s true. Just get really curious about that feeling, lean into it and go, Where does that coming from? Why do I think that? Why am I saying that out loud or in my own head or in my journal or whatever? And when you compare it to everything you’ve done and everything that makes up who you are, you usually find that those negative, angry voices are coming from somewhere else. There’s something that you haven’t dealt with, some unresolved thing that your brain just starts connecting all those dots to. When you were a kid, told that you were a fat, lazy loser that was going to end up in jail or dead. Like your brain wants to make all those connections and so you have to tell it. No, there’s other ones. There’s plenty of other evidence that tells a completely different story. And in the end, I’m going to win this case.
Lunden Souza: [00:36:40] Mm hmm. What about you, Zach? The story of not enough not worthy. How do we rewrite that and actually believe it?
Zach Tucker: [00:36:50] Yeah. So, I mean, I got Jeremy kind of stole my line there. I usually go with the evidence, you know, like, whatever it is I’m telling myself, whatever it is, I think I believe. You know, one of my therapists, you know, gave me this trick. She was like, Where’s the evidence of that? And in looking back of, you know, in my life, like, I could never find, like, that tangible evidence. But to go a little bit further, like, even just asking that question, it’s a good question. But being curious about yourself and being okay with being wrong about what you believe, Right. Some of the things that we have hardwired, those internal messages that we’ve been handed down from our parents and loved ones who, you know most of the time didn’t realize they were even doing anything wrong. Sometimes those messages are wrong. Some of the things that we believe deep down in our core are actually wrong. So I actually I lean into it now of, Hey, this thing, I’m telling myself, why would I believe this? You know, not even like going back and looking for the evidence as to why it’s not true, but like, why would I believe this? Why? Why is this something that I would hold on to? Why is this a truth that I think is real and just being okay with being wrong and changing that? So I think that was probably one of the things that changed my life was really letting my ego go.
Zach Tucker: [00:38:19] I don’t have to be right all the time unless I was arguing with my wife. Then I always had to be right. But I’m just kidding. Just being okay with being wrong. It really is like this amazing release of this thing I believe might not be true. And when you just say it that way, then you start looking at what else could be true. And a lot of times that completely changes the story and rewrites it in a way that you really had no idea it was going to come about. And I think my life, it’s been a series of those rewrites that has led me to being 4043, the happiest, healthiest I’ve ever been in my entire life. And it’s because of all these rewrites, because I was looking for evidence in the past and examining my beliefs and being okay with being wrong and changing my opinion right. You can change your mind. You don’t have to be tomorrow. What you were yesterday.
Lunden Souza: [00:39:23] Yes. Yes. Snaps. I love just hearing a lot of this. I think it’s so it’s so important because. Until I had that awareness. You don’t have the awareness. So my hope for this episode is that people will just be able to like, stop and freeze frame and be like, okay, what did I just say? Where’s the evidence like you mentioned? Is it true? Could something else be possible if that’s not true? And I think this reminds me of, you know, when I where I started in fitness and even in life coaching and NLP, too, oftentimes people have a long list of how they don’t want to feel like I call myself a loser, but I don’t want to be that and I don’t want to be that. And I often will ask like, okay, well then how do you want to feel if you know you don’t want to be that? How do you want to feel? And so I work a lot with like core values or a personal honor code with myself and with clients because it’s like, okay, if you know the whole whopping list of all that you don’t want, let’s get clear about what you do want.
Lunden Souza: [00:40:24] Let’s create your rules to your game to live by so that you can wake up being like, Yeah, that’s who I want to be. And I’m living in alignment with who I say I want to be. And so core values have been really powerful tool in my life. I take them with me everywhere I go. I like look at them regularly. I consult them if like something. Is that right for me? I’m not sure. Well, is it an alignment with my core values and who I want to be and who I’m working to become? Do you guys do something like that? Do you have specific core values that you live by that are like your code of honor or something like that? Because I find that so important. And also I hold myself very accountable to that despite being the one that created it, right? Sometimes we think like, Oh, we need a coach or something outside of us to hold us accountable. But I feel very accountable to how I do want to feel every day. Do you guys have that?
Zach Tucker: [00:41:14] I do, yeah. I all I keep thinking about is like manifesting what I want. This started probably about a year and a half ago, two years ago, where I was reading some Joe dispenser work and like, he just talked about, like, if you want a change in your life, like it’s okay to list it out, but like, really putting out there, like how you’re going to feel with the change, right? Like you were talking about, like, I don’t want to be a loser. I don’t want this. I don’t want this focusing on how you’re going to feel. With a change that you want. Like that was that was a game changer for me because I literally would just I’ve got sheets of paper all over my house, like representing this one idea of what I want and how I’m going to feel when I get there. And it’s some call it the universe, call it the subconscious or whatever. It is like putting it down on paper and really, really examining how I’m going to feel when I get what I want and really understanding what I want to. I think that’s the important part. A lot of us think we want something, but it’s not actually what we want. That was a game changer for me because whether it’s the universe or my subconscious, those things started happening for me and in my life, like I and being vulnerable about who I am and the struggles that I’m going through, coaches just naturally appeared. I would say I’m struggling with X and a coach who could help me with X just showed up. So for me, like I just get really, really clear. I go, I go deep inside finding out what it is I want and how I want to feel when I get it and how I think I’m going to feel. And it just starts showing up like again. It’s an amazing thing for me and I know that there’s a contribution that I have to make to it, but I believe it’s kind of putting it out there to the universe and all the stars align and it just comes to me.
Lunden Souza: [00:43:13] And not waiting for the feeling or like for the experience to happen, to have the feeling. And I love the work of Dr. Jo to Benza. So it’s like, okay, how do you want to feel? How are you going to feel when X, y, or Z happens? Okay, let’s practice feeling that now ahead of the experience. And I think that’s probably one of the most miraculous things that we can do, or else we’re always giving our power away, always waiting for this to be paid off or this to happen, or this person to do this type. Like it’s like, how can you feel and practice feeling that way now? And that’s been the most powerful magnet in my life, too. It’s just I remember moving back from Austria a couple of years ago. Yeah. Starting everything from scratch, leaving all the partnerships, all the relationships. The company I worked for for eight years, all the things, you know, sitting at my parents house in my niece’s bed, at my parent’s house, which had like Cinderella and all the princesses on it, sitting in there being like, You’re 33. This is cute, you know, like, what’s going on? And I remember telling myself, okay, if you don’t want this, what do you want and how are you going to feel it ahead of the experience? And so every day I woke up as if even on the days I didn’t want to write And I like literally like, okay, and if you were this person and you were having a bad day, what would you do? Like, what is that next best step? And a friend of mine, just because you mentioned Dr.
Lunden Souza: [00:44:34] Joe, but a friend of mine lives in Nashville, Tennessee, and this week they’re having an advanced follow up retreat for Dr. Joe dispenses retreats, which I love to do. But anyways, you’ll do these walking meditations where you listen and you walk as if you are the being that has the thing that you’re the experience, whatever that you’re going after. And so I told them I’m like, Hey, you might see like thousands of people blissed out in your town doing walking meditations because I was in Cancun when we did this. I’m like, So get ready. Be on the lookout for people just like walking as if they are becoming who they want to be in the moment. It’s such a cool experience. In fact, Dr. Joe would would joke and say that in some towns they think it’s like the zombie apocalypse because they see all these people like walking very powerfully through on the beach or on a bike path or something. And they’re like, What’s going on? But I think that that work is so important. And that also combines what I love a lot the physical and the working out and the movement and the kinesthetic with the feeling where it’s like, sometimes I don’t even need to walk, right? It could be like in the gym, right? Zach Like seven days in a row, Just like being as if working as if.
Lunden Souza: [00:45:36] And you get that feeling that matches with that physical movement. And I feel like that is like, yeah, so empowering. I just feel like it helps me feel the most alive, right? Like when we can have that physical experience, that feeling, and then when it comes, it’s like, Oh, that feels familiar because I’ve already been feeling it. I shared with my boyfriend the other day, I’m like, You know, I really feel when I’m in my meditations there’s not a drastic difference of this, like heightened state of just love and appreciation. For the moment, I don’t find it as drastic. Like I feel like I’m holding the line or maintaining it in and out of meditation. And I really like I’m proud of myself. Like, that feels good because where I was two years ago was not like that at all. And so just, yeah, walking as if being as if. And that feeling before the outcome is so powerful because it’s like, if not, you can just get really stuck in where you might be in the moment. And I’m a loser, I’m this. It’s like, no, I can flip that script and rewrite it a little bit. And so acting as if and being it ahead of the actual or feeling it ahead of the actual experience totally lights me up. Totally lights me up. Yep.
Jeremy Grater: [00:46:51] There’s a couple of things I want to say about that. One is it was actually our conversation with you on our 109th episode where you said, again, it’s one of those things you kind of hear and it sort of makes sense, but then somebody says it at the right time and the right way, and all of a sudden it becomes a part of who you are as a as a being. And you were describing just that. When you imagine the person you want to become and what are the things that they do in their life to be that person every day? Do they walk? You literally said, do they walk by the pile of. Laundry and let it be there, or do they throw in a load because the kind of person who gets things done, something about the way that you made that analogy totally changed my perspective. And I was just like that. I get that now. Like, okay, imagine. And then what would that person do? I don’t know. I’m not that person, but I know that person wouldn’t walk by a pile of laundry and leave it there. That person wouldn’t just throw their dishes in the sink. That person wouldn’t let the the cat hair ball up on the floor. They would do something about it. They would not wait for mommy to show up and vacuum the house for them.
Jeremy Grater: [00:47:49] They would take control of their lives and they would live it. And so literally, our conversation with you helped open that door for me in ways that I had not expected prior to our interview. But I also want to say on the idea of manifestation, I this last year has been very much that manifesting this life that I’m now living, literally up until the last few weeks, I was putting those same practices into place. And it was funny because again, Zach was sort of opening the door to some Dr. Joe stuff for me, and this whole idea of leading with the feeling and all that, and I was in a situation where I needed to do something about income, like more needed to be coming in that was going out. It was it was getting a little dicey for a while. And so I wrote out the map, meditated on the here’s how I’m going to feel and this is going to be amazing. And this job landed in my inbox. Hey, we’re looking for somebody. At least it could not have described me better. I applied for the job. And I didn’t get it. And I thought, Well, that’s a bunch of nonsense. I’m never doing that again. What a bunch of hooey. And then I panicked and jumped on to LinkedIn and reached out to every network person I could find and ended up finding another job that I got, like literally, like three days later.
Jeremy Grater: [00:49:02] And it wasn’t a lot, but it was enough to at least keep the lights on for a while, right? And then now a few months goes by. And that job that I had initially wanted and didn’t get I’m now doing. And so I just want to sort of stress that anybody who’s sort of experimenting with this manifestation stuff go back to the part where I said, like, there’s no timeline here. Like, don’t expect it to happen next week. Don’t expect it to happen next month. Like, it will come. It will come when you need it, Right? Like there’s there’s there’s a line from the U2 song Beautiful Day, and it’s escaping me now. Oh, I know what it is. What you don’t have. You don’t need it now. Like that has gotten me through the last few months like nothing has in so long. Just this idea that because I don’t have it means I don’t need it. And that’s okay. I can let go and just sort of let go of let go of the white knuckle on the steering wheel and just open my hands and receive and it’ll come when it’s ready.
Lunden Souza: [00:49:55] Mm hmm. So good. And Zach, for you. What is it look like to have that feeling ahead of the experience when you’re, like you said, also dealing with other people’s labels on you, too? Like, what is it going to feel like when people don’t see you as this guy who’s just going in and out of jail? Like to help people see you as the way you also want to be seen now, right? Not everybody’s going to match you when they’re used to you or you’ve proven time and time again that this is who you’re showing up to be as if how can you feel and someone might be in this situation where it’s like, I believe it, I can feel it, but everyone around me is not seeing it now, and kind of rightfully so, because I’ve given them more repetitions in this way than I have this way. How do you keep going to chase that feeling? Yeah. You know, when you first started, let’s say, or you first realized, like, Hey, I want to switch this story.
Zach Tucker: [00:50:55] Yeah, I you know, honestly, it was so long ago. I don’t know if I can really speak directly to that other than, you know, my family telling me today, like, you know, these stories of, you know, we saw you starting to change, but we didn’t believe it. We didn’t. It wasn’t real. But I’m actually working with a guy right now who’s going through a change. So he’s actually in like the spot that you just described, where he has been a certain way for so long. There’s like a path of destruction behind him, and he’s actively, openly working on changing all of these things about himself. But everyone keeps remembering the last year of what’s going on and what’s happening. So every time there’s a little slip up, even though, you know, he’s making ten steps ahead, there’s one step behind and everyone just goes, See, I told you so, like. And I keep telling you, I keep telling him like, look, there is there’s all this stuff behind you, right? There is a there’s a reputation, whether you like it or not. There is a reputation that you have. There’s a you know, a feeling that you have given to other people. And whenever they see anything that matches what you used to do, that feeling is going to come up and you need to ignore it. You need to keep pushing forward because you will get past this and eventually that will change and that will change and they’re going to think differently of you. But it’s just being, you know, and it’s uncomfortable to think about that, too, right? That for every misstep that you have, everyone is going to think you’re the worst case scenario that you’ve always been. And that’s just not true. It’s just their perception. And I know this is easier said than done, but you need to really not care what other people are thinking when you’re trying to make these changes because you’re the only one who is really going to judge you at the end of the day.
Lunden Souza: [00:53:01] Yes. Yes. I have a client. I was I was working with one on one before. And, yeah, there was a moment where she really identified, Oh, I really care what other people think. And a lot of people know that I’m just always the person that’s going to say yes and do the thing and all of that. And she had this moment where she said no. And it was very yeah, a very big impact in her life because for so long people were just used to the. Yes, the yes, the yes, the yes story. And she was like, honestly, I don’t this is for me, like, I don’t I want to say no because I realize I can’t I can’t not stand up for who I want to be anymore, regardless of if people are used to me being this particular way. And it was just, yeah, such a beautiful moment where she realized, like, Hey. It more. It kind of matters more what I think of me by setting this boundary more than it does of what others might think or say. And it’ll be okay because you know I’m okay, because I know that’s who I want to be. And so it was such a cool situation and a cool moment because, yeah, there’s times where we have that recognition and it’s like, Oh yeah, well I’ve given them a lot of yeses.
Lunden Souza: [00:54:28] So of course there’s going to be evidence for more and more yeses. But if I’m really getting to be true to me, no is really what I want here. And so she had that moment where she’s like, Yeah, I still care what other people think, but I still can say no despite that. And so when you said that I care what other people think or I’m worried about what they might think, what I worked with her to craft was like, Och, you might not be able to say right now. You might not be able to say right now, Oh, I don’t care at all what other people think, right? Like you might not be there yet. So what we were working on was just saying, you know, like thinking about, okay, what am I saying? I’m saying I care so much what people think, What’s like the next believable statement? And so for her, it was like, I’m working on being okay with what others might think about me. And so that was like her next believable, like bite size rewrite for that particular limiting belief or like particular area she felt stuck in.
Lunden Souza: [00:55:24] And I was like, Cool. Can you do you believe that? Can you get on board with it? And she’s like, Yeah. And I’m like, Can you get on board with I don’t care what anybody thinks at all. She’s like, Nah. I’m like, Yeah, okay, cool. Let’s take that breadcrumb and let’s make it like the next most believable thing. And so I find that’s been really helpful to in the Rewrite, it’s like we might not be going from, Hey, I’m not enough to I am enough, I am everything. I am all I need, right? We might not believe that quite yet, even though I think saying that to yourself before you believe it in the mirror is super helpful. But crafting those next believable stories to help our brain get on board with the fact that like, Hey, we can change. It’s just going to take some repetition, some progressions, kind of like a workout, and then we can get to a space of believing in who we now are. So I think that is really what we talked about today here on this episode. And I just I really yeah, I appreciate the conversation, you guys. I feel like I could just sit and hang and talk for a long time.
Jeremy Grater: [00:56:19] Definitely. Yeah. Thank you. This is so much fun and I’m so glad we got to do this. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Lunden Souza: [00:56:24] Yeah. And let us know where we can connect with you guys. I’ll put it all in the show notes and everything, but for those listening, how can we get more from the Fit Mess guys?
Jeremy Grater: [00:56:33] You can find everything you need at the fit mess dot com. We are at fitness guys on every social platform that we care to participate on. But if you want to hear the interview that we did with you, where we were on the other side of the microphone, that was episode 109 of the fitness dot com. So you can find that really easily by going to the fitness dot com slash 109 and that’ll take you right there And we can keep the conversation going back in time.
Lunden Souza: [00:56:59] Right. And a little reverse conversation. I should go back and listen. I just remember feeling Yeah. Just like how I feel now. Very. It’s cool to be able to have conversations and sometimes just sharing experiences and not always needing there to be like a right answer or this. It’s just like, Hey, here’s where we’re at, here’s what we’re going through and here’s what it means for us. And so I appreciate what you guys are doing. I think it’s so powerful. Thank you guys, for listening. Thank you for being here. Go listen to the fitness guys show. I’ll put all the links as well that Jeremy mentioned in the show notes. And thank you guys so much for being here.
Zach Tucker: [00:57:32] Thanks for having us.
Lunden Souza: [00:57:33] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Self Love and Sweat the podcast. Hey, do me a favor. Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, give us a review. This really helps a lot and share this with a friend. I’m only one person, and with your help we can really spread the message of self love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I’m Lunden Souza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose, fueled by self love and sweat. This podcast is a hitspot Austria production.